@kellyjay saidAgain you are being vague and not providing details of what proper status is required or context.. . So your comment is pointless.
As I said every time you quote scripture not giving it the proper status you take it out of context and on top of the twisting of those times you use text.
@divegeester saidI think Jesus's explanation is clear, so I do not understand what your issue is. Lets repeat. Jesus said
Then what did Jesus mean what he said to Nicodemus:
“YOU must be born again”?
The spirit is reborn not the flesh, but the spirit is within the flesh, within the person.
I really don’t see what your issue is with this, it’s a simple premise which abundantly stated, inferred, referenced and explained throughout scripture.
- that which is born of flesh is flesh
- that which is born of the Spirit is spirit [John 3]
- a spirit hath not flesh and bones. [Luke 24]
Therefore a spirit is the end result of being born of the Spirit. This spirit can move like the wind. If an man has flesh and blood and bones, then he is not born of the Spirit. Paul also confirmed this as well with the statement that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Same thing Jesus said.
Do you believe that people need to be changed in order to enter the Kingdom of God or do they just go as they are with their fleshly bodies?
08 Sep 23
@divegeester saidTwo different things;
@Rajk999
Romans 8:9 - However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
You don’t believe that the spirit of god is within believers?
1. Yes the Spirit of God dwells in certain believers
2. Born of the Spirit is another matter. As Jesus explained ... AGAIN . .. what is born of the Spirit is spirit. It is a spirit that can move like the wind. I dont know anyone that can do that. A spirit does not have flesh and bones.
Believers have flesh and bones.
08 Sep 23
@divegeester saidIf you read the whole chapter, Paul refers to two opposing states
@Rajk999
Romans 8:9 - However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you.
You don’t believe that the spirit of god is within believers?
- fleshly or carnally minded
- spiritually minded.
The mind of the believers is the issue. They are still flesh and bones.
@divegeester saidI did respond to your question. The answer was Yes.. see above.
You could instead address the scripture given and respond to my question.
I know its Friday night, and you must have had a couple beers.
09 Sep 23
@divegeester saidNot to worry about it.
Ok so we agree that the spirit of god dwells in believers who are born again.
I don’t really get what your issue is tbh.
09 Sep 23
@rajk999 saidYou provide the details, the scriptures are they the revealed word of God or not, and if so do you submit to the word as it is written? Do you choose what to accept and not accept? Your use of the written word is pointless, unless you acknowledge it for what it is not what you want.
Again you are being vague and not providing details of what proper status is required or context.. . So your comment is pointless.
09 Sep 23
@kellyjay saidClearly you do not accept the Word of God, Jesus Christ when he makes these statements :
You provide the details, the scriptures are they the revealed word of God or not, and if so do you submit to the word as it is written? Do you choose what to accept and not accept? Your use of the written word is pointless, unless you acknowledge it for what it is not what you want.
- that which is born of flesh is flesh
- that which is born of the Spirit is spirit [John 3]
- a spirit hath not flesh and bones. [Luke 24]
This means that if a man has flesh and blood and bones, then he is not born of the Spirit. Paul also confirmed this as well with the statement that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. Same thing Jesus said.
So Christians who are baptised, and who have the Holy Spirit are not born of the Spirit, they are flesh and blood. These Christians can be properly described in many ways:
- born again [of water ie baptism]
- having a spiritual rebirth
- sons of God
- begotten of God
- having the Spirit of God
- having the indwelt Spirit of God
- being a new creature in Christ
These are all acceptable because the Christian is still in his flesh and blood state. He is not a spirit, which can move like the wind.
After judgment the righteous who kept the commandments will be given a new body, which Paul described here:
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Corinthians 15:52-53 KJV)
All people have a flesh and blood body that is corruptible. After judgment and when the righteous dead are raised they will all be born of the Spirit, ie spirit beings who can now enter the Kingdom of God.
10 Sep 23
@rajk999 saidSo you believe that scripture and Jesus Christ are at odds with each other in some passages?
Clearly you do not accept the Word of God, Jesus Christ when he makes these statements :
- that which is born of flesh is flesh
- that which is born of the Spirit is spirit [John 3]
- a spirit hath not flesh and bones. [Luke 24]
This means that if a man has flesh and blood and bones, then he is not born of the Spirit. Paul also confirmed this as well with the statement ...[text shortened]... e raised they will all be born of the Spirit, ie spirit beings who can now enter the Kingdom of God.
@kellyjay saidNo, I do not believe that at all. Jesus and Paul are saying exactly the same things. Your church doctrine is what is at odds with Jesus and scripture.
So you believe that scripture and Jesus Christ are at odds with each other in some passages?
If you believe Jesus is at odds with scripture please quote the references.
10 Sep 23
@rajk999 saidWell then provide the documentation that is required to make that statement! What church doctrine, where are you going to find it so you can make a claim that says it is different!?
No, I do not believe that at all. Jesus and Paul are saying exactly the same things. Your church doctrine is what is at odds with Jesus and scripture.
If you believe Jesus is at odds with scripture please quote the references.
To date what you do when you’re being called out for contradictory statements, it is almost automatic, you claim your right and church doctrine is wrong, even when all that was shared was scripture.
You are dishonest in doing that, when you’re confronted with scriptural text alone that shows your error, you ignore the scripture and claim church doctrine without bringing in any evidence of your claims. What church, what specific doctrine are you referring to from what denomination? You created a scapegoat to trod out each time you are confronted with Biblical scripture showing your errors.
It looks like according to you, only you can read the Bible correctly, and if anyone disagrees it their church doctrine, deceiver.
10 Sep 23
@kellyjay saidYou are a defeated man.
Well then provide the documentation that is required to make that statement! What church doctrine, where are you going to find it so you can make a claim that says it is different!?
To date what you do when you’re being called out for contradictory statements, it is almost automatic, you claim your right and church doctrine is wrong, even when all that was shared was scr ...[text shortened]... , only you can read the Bible correctly, and if anyone disagrees it their church doctrine, deceiver.
Jesus says one thing.
You say another.
Its that simple.