JW Question

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you benefit yourself by becoming healthy and you potentially benefit society from
becoming healthy.

I get the feeling, as per usual, you just don't want to admit you got it wrong. Same old same old i guess.

Originally posted by FMF
Because of the religionist way that you frame it. Helping people is great. I am not disappointed in that at all. What I have been disagreeing with about is, because I am unimpressed by it, spiritually speaking, is what I see as the self-regarding self-declared "blood sacrifice" angle, which you are of course free to believe in. The "work getting done" does not disappoint me, robbie. Never said it did.

I am quite sure when she thought of giving up her career as a teacher she was not
motivated by self regard nor in terms of the spiritual equivalent of a blood sacrifice,
only such a scenario exists in your mind FMF.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I get the feeling, as per usual, you just don't want to admit you got it wrong. Same old same old i guess.

no this is my genuine thought, i have no problem admitting that i am wrong, i just dont
buy it that you have saved the NHS money until you actually do.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am quite sure when she thought of giving up her career as a teacher she was not
motivated by self regard nor in terms of the spiritual equivalent of a blood sacrifice,
only such a scenario exists in your mind FMF.

Well you have said that you see your own voluntary work as the equivalent of blood sacrifice. I am unimpressed by this. So now you present me with a person who does not see her own voluntary work as the equivalent of blood sacrifice... and what? She doesn't. So? I say good then. She doesn't. But you do, because you said you do.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no this is my genuine thought, i have no problem admitting that i am wrong, i just dont
buy it that you have saved the NHS money until you actually do.

Sorry Rob, but you once admitted to lying about racism directed at your family so as to not concede a point in a thread. You have form.

I'll tell you what i'll do. I'll stop going to the gym and doing any exercise, in a few months my lower back will start to ache again. I then have two choices, i can either go back to the gym and start exercising and correcting the issues as to why my back aches or i can go to my GP who will then refer me on to a physio. If i choose the latter i will cost the NHS, and society at large money, money. Slam dunk case as to why my exercising is benfical for society and not just me.

Originally posted by FMF
Well you have said that you see your own voluntary work as the equivalent of blood sacrifice. I am unimpressed by this. So now you present me with a person who does [b]not see her own voluntary work as the equivalent of blood sacrifice... and what? She doesn't? So? I say good then. She doesn't. But you do, because you said you do.[/b]

no FMF, you were simply unwilling in trying to understand it in any other terms even
when pressed upon to do so and despite attempts to highlight other aspects,you
continued in your one dimensional sanctimoniousness self righteous liberal mindset,
because to do anything else you would have needed to exercise understanding, which
you were not prepared to do for the sake of a measly internet argument, this is not my
problem FMF, its yours.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Sorry Rob, but you once admitted to lying about racism directed at your family so as to not concede a point in a thread. You have form.

I'll tell you what i'll do. I'll stop going to the gym and doing any exercise, in a few months my lower back will start to ache again. I then have two choices, i can either go back to the gym and start exercising and ...[text shortened]... money, money. Slam dunk case as to why my exercising is benfical for society and not just me.

ok ok, keep yer kilt on my man, you have saved the NHS some dosh and as much as i
hate to admit it, i may have been guilty of a slight inaccuracy of statement. Are you
happy now?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Sorry Rob, but you once admitted to lying about racism directed at your family so as to not concede a point in a thread. You have form.

I'll tell you what i'll do. I'll stop going to the gym and doing any exercise, in a few months my lower back will start to ache again. I then have two choices, i can either go back to the gym and start exercising and ...[text shortened]... money, money. Slam dunk case as to why my exercising is benfical for society and not just me.

And another one, my girlfriend worked as a physio in an out-patients department in the NHS, she saw people who were referred by their GP. Most of the people she saw were suffering from aches and pains caused by being overweight, 'de-conditioned' and generally poor physical fitness. All of these probelms could have been solved by them going to the gym finding a good instructor and putting a bit of hard work in for a few months.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
And another one, my girlfriend worked as a physio in an out-patients department in the NHS, she saw people who were referred by their GP. Most of the people she saw were suffering from aches and pains caused by being overweight, 'de-conditioned' and generally poor physical fitness. All of these probelms could have been solved by them going to the gym finding a good instructor and putting a bit of hard work in for a few months.

well yes indeed, these are real life examples, you have a point, clearly exercising
would save the NHS some dosh, But how are you going to make them go to the gym
PK.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no FMF, you were simply unwilling in trying to understand it in any other terms even
when pressed upon to do so and despite attempts to highlight other aspects,you
continued in your one dimensional sanctimoniousness self righteous liberal mindset,
because to do anything else you would have needed to exercise understanding, which
you were not ...[text shortened]... pared to do for the sake of a measly internet argument, this is not my
problem FMF, its yours.

But I understand what you said clearly. You said that you see your own voluntary work as the equivalent of blood sacrifice. This is a kind of spiritual/religionist perspective that I find alienating.

Other aspects I can consider as you raise them. What are they? 'A desire to help others for instance'? I am supportive and impressed. 'Someone called Paul wrote that it is "sacrifice"?' Not impressed. 'These issues must be tackled, through voluntary work if/where/when necessary?' I am impressed. 'Voluntary work is the equivalent of blood sacrifice?' Not impressed.

What "other aspects" do you want to present? What I am being critical of is specific and clear. If you have other "dimensions" you wish to highlight, do so if you want.

Originally posted by FMF
But I understand what you said clearly. You said that you see your own voluntary work as the equivalent of blood sacrifice. This is a kind of spiritual/religionist perspective that I find alienating.

Other aspects I can consider as you raise them: 'A desire to others for instance'? I am supportive and impressed. 'Someone called Paul wrote that it is "sacrifi nd clear. If you have other "dimensions" you wish to highlight, do so if you want.

actually i feel that my words were very harsh to you FMF and i apologise for their acidic
tone. I would simply like you to entertain the possibility that as a human being I might
also be motivated by a sense of justice, or of decency or any other human trait as well
as a willingness towards self sacrifice, not solely for its own merits as the spiritual
equivalent of a blood sacrifice, which may be the case, but for a love of people and a
willingness to render help to those who might need it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
well yes indeed, these are real life examples, you have a point, clearly exercising
would save the NHS some dosh, But how are you going to make them go to the gym
PK.

I'm not going to make them, that was your claim you introduced into this discusion. I was just pointing out, as i have tried to do for three hours, that exercise not only benefits the individual but society also. That's all i've been trying to do since page 25 of this thread when you made the claim that exercise only benefits the individual.

Look at this this way, don't think of the people who aren't exercisiing but think think of the people who are. What would happen if everbody who was fit and healthy stopped whatever it is that makes them fit and healthy overnight. You can bet that in x amount of time down the road people will start getting aches and pains, illnesses and diseases that were at bay will start to rear their ugly heads and those once fit and healthy people will be off to the doctors and then off to whichever department in the NHS for a referral. Al the time costing society money.

Anyway my backs a little tight, i'm off to the gym. Or should a make an appointment to see my GP?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I'm not going to make them, that was your claim you introduced into this discusion. I was just pointing out, as i have tried to do for three hours, that exercise not only benefits the individual but society also. That's all i've been trying to do since page 25 of this thread when you made the claim that exercise only benefits the individual.

Look at my backs a little tight, i'm off to the gym. Or should a make an appointment to see my GP?

I also suffer from back injuries, in fact, I could not walk properly for three months last
year after i lifted my bicycle from the back of my truck, i never visited the GP once
and i still have pain almost a year later.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

I would simply like you to entertain the possibility that as a human being I might also be motivated by a sense of justice, or of decency or any other human trait as well as a willingness towards self sacrifice, not solely on its own merits as the spiritual equivalent of a blood sacrifice, which may be the case, but for a love of people and a willingness to render help to those who might need it.

This is a rather contorted and over-egged straw man on your part, robbie.

Being motivated by a sense of justice is a manifestation of spirituality I can heartily endorse.

Being motivated by decency is a form of spirituality I can admire.

Being motivated by a love of people is a spiritual path I am impressed by.

Being motivated by a willingness to render help to those who might need it, I endorse.

But claiming that one's voluntary work is the equivalent of blood sacrifice is a manifestation of religionist dogma that, to my way of thinking, is spiritually diminishing and seems to me - for all intents and purposes, to be a manifestation of vanity.

I have entertained all these other "dimensions" and expressed both my understanding and my admiration. I baulk at the "blood sacrifice" thing, robbie. It is disappointing and, for me, taints and rather lets down the other fine motivations.

And I have not used the word "solely". Your whole straw man hinges on you slipping that word in there and pretending that I used it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I also suffer from back injuries, in fact, I could not walk properly for three months last
year after i lifted my bicycle from the back of my truck, i never visited the GP once
and i still have pain almost a year later.

If your back is giving you trouble and affecting your quality of life you should go and get it sorted. It's Glasgow or therebaouts you live isn't it? I know of someone who has the number of a very good physical therapist in Glasgow (i think it's Glasgow he lives), if you're interested let me know.

I used to have a bad lower back, it used to give me terrible 'gyp'. Then i rediscovered reistance weight training and my back has never bothered me again, it gets a little tight from time to time but nothing that can't be fixed.