Why do religious ones stick with delusions?

Originally posted by sonhouse
Refusing to sin? The whole underlying concept of christianity is being BORN into sin. So you have no choice in the matter, do you? You sin by just being alive. Great religion you have there.

Born into sin. The single sickest concept ever foisted on an unsuspecting populace.

Like I have always maintained, the biggest scam of the past 3000 years.

C ...[text shortened]... d, tell a lie, make it big enough, millions of people will believe it. Oops, make that billions.

While that view is quite prevalent, it doesn't seem to be where she is coming from, so it is unfair to lump her in with the rest because she sees her self as Christian. Ostensibly Christians should follow the doctrine of Jesus. When Jesus walked the earth, he taught his followers that they were to become righteous, i.e., not sin. So if "Christianity" is about following Jesus, then she is more "Christian" than those who believe it impossible to stop committing sin.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Refusing to sin? The whole underlying concept of christianity is being BORN into sin. So you have no choice in the matter, do you? You sin by just being alive. Great religion you have there.

>anti-Christianity rant snipped<

But accept your salvation and you are freed from the sin debt. All that is left is refusing to continue to sin. Aye, there's the real rub. That's where the rubber meets the road for most Christians.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
So you believe that only a slim majority Christians continue to commit sin?

Then why isn't it evident? Even at those numbers it should still be evident.

Because most real Christians are not shouting "hey, look at me". They are busy quietly living their lives in their faith.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
While that view is quite prevalent, it doesn't seem to be where she is coming from, so it is unfair to lump her in with the rest because she sees her self as Christian. Ostensibly Christians should follow the doctrine of Jesus. When Jesus walked the earth, he taught his followers that they were to become righteous, i.e., not sin. So if "Christianity" is a ...[text shortened]... , then she is more "Christian" than those who believe it impossible to stop committing sin.

Pretty good grip on the situation.

For an atheist, I mean. 😛

Originally posted by Proper Knob
But it's the truth.

maybe but its irrelevant in this context.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Because most real Christians are not shouting "hey, look at me". They are busy quietly living their lives in their faith.

This seems more than a bit disingenous. I'm sure you're fully aware that whether or not someone shouts "hey, look at me" is irrelevant. What matters is who they are and the sign is the fruit they bear.

Like I said earlier:
"From what I've seen, Christians are no more moral than the general public. From those I've asked, the vast majority, including Christians, do not see Christians as more moral than the general public either."

Originally posted by Suzianne
But accept your salvation and you are freed from the sin debt. All that is left is refusing to continue to sin. Aye, there's the real rub. That's where the rubber meets the road for most Christians.

The concept that "you are freed from the sin debt" by "accept[ing] your salvation" is also not a part of the doctrine of Jesus. When Jesus walked the earth, He did not teach His followers this. Why do you not follow the doctrine of Jesus regarding this? Seems like following His doctrine should be a part of "walking the walk".

Originally posted by sonhouse
What is it about religion that makes people give up their minds to dogma? Especially with so many religions saying totally opposite things. How can such a person look at all the other religions and say to themselves, my religion is the one true religion?

I also wonder how those of the atheist religion can possibly
look at all that God has created, including themselves, and
believe the evolutionists dogma that it all happened by
accident. To them it was by pure chance that everything is
just right on this planet for life to exist as it does. They
look in vain to find a drop of water on some other planet
to prove life may exist there, but ignore all other factors
that make earth so unique that no other planet could match
it without the hand of God involved. It is amazing to me.
What has happened to their brains? Is it due to delusions?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The concept that "you are freed from the sin debt" by "accept[ing] your salvation" is also not a part of the doctrine of Jesus. When Jesus walked the earth, He did not teach His followers this. Why do you not follow the doctrine of Jesus regarding this? Seems like following His doctrine should be a part of "walking the walk".

She is saved by grace. That means she cannot lose her salvation and works are not necessary.

Originally posted by Rajk999
She is saved by grace. That means she cannot lose her salvation and works are not necessary.

Did you miss the point of my post?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Did you miss the point of my post?

Im sure you know my position on the importance of works. I was being sarcastic.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Im sure you know my position on the importance of works. I was being sarcastic.

Wasn't sure what you trying to get at.

What I find most interesting about the "salvation by grace" vs. "salvation by works" debate is that the doctrine of Jesus seems to be best described as "salvation through righteousness" so neither is accurate. Not sure why so many Christians seem to find that concept so offensive. I suspect it's because they are too afraid to face life without their salvation being assured.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Wasn't sure what you trying to get at.

What I find most interesting about the "salvation by grace" vs. "salvation by works" debate is that the doctrine of Jesus seems to be best described as "salvation through righteousness" so neither is accurate. Not sure why so many Christians seem to find that concept so offensive. I suspect it's because they are too afraid to face life without their salvation being assured.

Here is my opinion of all that:

Grace is the free gift given to ALL of mankind through the death of Christ .. ALL, not just Christians. This means that all now have the opportunity to be saved.

Tit_2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

But to get salvation, Christ laid out several things that one MUST do :

1. Accept Christ and believe in Him = Faith.
2. Be baptised
3. Follow His commandments = Works

If you follow Christ's commandments you will do good works , you will refrain from Sin, you will help the Poor etc. = Righteousness.

Christ established the recipe for salvation and did not just talk about faith. Its ALL... - faith, works, righteousness, charity. Its embracing Christ via an entire life change. Christians mistakenly believe that they can accept Christ with their mouth only, and they are saved.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Here is my opinion of all that:

Grace is the free gift given to ALL of mankind through the death of Christ .. ALL, not just Christians. This means that all now have the opportunity to be saved.

Tit_2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

But to get salvation, Christ laid out several things that one MUST d ...[text shortened]... tians mistakenly believe that they can accept Christ with their mouth only, and they are saved.

But to get salvation, Christ laid out several things that one MUST do :

1. Accept Christ and believe in Him = Faith.
2. Be baptised
3. Follow His commandments = Works

What do you mean by "accept Christ and believe in Him"? Does that entail accepting and believing in His commandments or something else?

What leads you to believe that Jesus taught that one must be baptized?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]But to get salvation, Christ laid out several things that one MUST do :

1. Accept Christ and believe in Him = Faith.
2. Be baptised
3. Follow His commandments = Works

What do you mean by "accept Christ and believe in Him"? Does that entail accepting and believing in His commandments or something else?

What leads you to believe that Jesus taught that one must be baptized?[/b]

Believe in Christ obviously means believe that He is the Son of God and accept Him means to accept his commandments and to do them.

As for Baptism :

Mark 6:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.