The Pharisee and the Tax Collector

@fmf said
A disconnect between what and what?

On your rap sheet against Christians on page one you said:

"They poopoo the different "Gods" of other theists. They brandish their supposed personal monopoly of "the truth". They even peddle the idea that dissenters deserve to be tortured for their thought crimes.
This is all presented as "humility", although it seems more like complete and utter immodesty to me - to claim that one has been "chosen" in this way - or that one can possibly know that one has been selected - ahead of billions and billions of other walking-talking human beings"

I just wondered if you as a non-Christian and Atheist, extended this to Jesus himself as he could be said to be brandishing his personal monopoly on the truth and poo-pooing another theist's God figure in the verses quoted in the OP?

If you don't think that then do you think Jesus was making a sound spiritual point about the type of humility Christians should adhere to without being up themselves about it?

@kellyjay said
I believe by God’s standards those practice evil and wickedness will be judged and condemned, unless they have turned their lives over to God in Jesus Christ serving Him.

Is that a yes or a no?

@ragwort said
I just wondered if you as a non-Christian and Atheist, extended this to Jesus himself as he could be said to be brandishing his personal monopoly on the truth and poo-pooing another theist's God figure in the verses quoted in the OP?

Like the Pharisees, Jesus was a Jew. How was he "poo-pooing another theist's God figure"?

@fmf said
Like the Pharisees, Jesus was a Jew. How was he "poo-pooing another theist's God figure"?

If you don't think he was or don't wish to commit yourself to a straight answer that's fine. My understanding of Jesus' parables and sermons was that he was trying to usher in an updated understanding of the Jewish God, one which some of them didn't recognize, that's all. I could be wrong of course, perhaps we should leave it there.

@ragwort said
do you think Jesus was making a sound spiritual point about the type of humility Christians should adhere to without being up themselves about it?

Whoever had the idea to attribute the parable to Jesus - when the literature was created decades after His death - certainly sought to encourage humility in the way one prays, but the humility-disconnect I am on about is with regard to ideology and self-perception and self-aggrandizement and misanthropy - interpersonal humility, in other words - not humility in one's personal prayers to one's god figure ~ which is of little or no interest to me.

@ragwort said
If you don't think he was or don't wish to commit yourself to a straight answer that's fine. My understanding of Jesus' parables and sermons was that he was trying to usher in an updated understanding of the Jewish God, one which some of them didn't recognize, that's all. I could be wrong of course, perhaps we should leave it there.

Gosh. Give me a chance. I am typing with one finger on a phone. The Pharisees and Jesus worshipped the same God. The rest of my answer is in my post above. Have a little patience.

@ragwort said
If you don't think he was or don't wish to commit yourself to a straight answer that's fine.

I was asking you a question about the specific text I'd quoted..

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Comparing oneself to others in an arrogant manner is indeed spoken against in scripture, but having pride in ones own accomplishments is positively encouraged. - Consider Galatians 6:4:

'Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else.'

🙂 well I'm proud as punch!

@fmf said
KellyJay: The self deceiving aspect of it are those who think they are better than others while patting themselves on the back for all they do. We all fall short!

@whodey said
Ever met Raj?

In all my years here, I cannot recall Rajk999 once boasting about what he does - not once - nor have I ever read anything where he is 'patting himself on the back'. ...[text shortened]... t misrepresenting what he argues, and what his stance on theology actually is, is cheap and evasive.

Raj comes here and sits in judgment over people that he does not know and whose actions he has no knowledge of.

According to the Bible, that is not such a good thing to do.

Now we all have done it, even you, that's just human nature. But I have long sense tried to shy away from judging people, especially people I don't know virtually at all. Raj is like the church lady. He sits there pounding the Bible saying that everyone is going to hell, assuming he even believes it exists.

Disgusting.

@whodey said
Raj comes here and sits in judgment over people that he does not know and whose actions he has no knowledge of.

According to the Bible, that is not such a good thing to do.

Now we all have done it, even you, that's just human nature. But I have long sense tried to shy away from judging people, especially people I don't know virtually at all. Raj is like the church lady ...[text shortened]... e Bible saying that everyone is going to hell, assuming he even believes it exists.

Disgusting.

booo f***ing hoo ... what a jib! Your reading comprehension is abysmal

@fmf said
Is that a yes or a no?

God is Holy, Righteous, Good and will not tolerate evil and wickedness. Those that practice such things will face the wrath of God, scripture declares that the punishment is a eternal Hell designed for the devil and his angels.

You are asking me something you knew my answer already.

@kellyjay said
God is Holy, Righteous, Good and will not tolerate evil and wickedness. Those that practice such things will face the wrath of God, scripture declares that the punishment is a eternal Hell designed for the devil and his angels.

Don't be silly. You believe you are "forgiven" and will have everlasting life. You believe you do not "face the wrath of God" and "the punishment [of] eternal Hell designed for the devil and his angels". You believe that your subscription to your ideology means that other people face this, not you. You believe that your God has chosen you to be spared all this. You believe you don't even have to do anything. You believe you only have to believe certain things. You believe your God will punish other people, not you. You believe you don't even need to stop your "wickedness and evil". You believe your ideology means you will not be punished for it. But people without your ideology will. This is not "humility".

@whodey said
Raj comes here and sits in judgment over people that he does not know and whose actions he has no knowledge of.

Rajj999's dispute with you is over doctrine.

@fmf said
Don't be silly. You believe you are "forgiven" and will have everlasting life. You believe you do not "face the wrath of God" and "the punishment [of] eternal Hell designed for the devil and his angels". You believe that your subscription to your ideology means that other people face this, not you. You believe that your God has chosen you to be spared all this. You believe you do ...[text shortened]... eans you will not be punished for it. But people without your ideology will. This is not "humility".

I believe that all of man's efforts are meaningless and self serving before God, and
the only way that allows us to come to God was prepared for us by God, Jesus
Christ. No one comes to the Father but through Him, and if mankind demands
God accepts man's works and efforts, then man will be sorely disappointed! We
cannot earn our way into God's Kingdom, we cannot bribe our way into God's
Kingdom, it is through the only way available which we had nothing to do with,
we either believe and accept Jesus Christ, the Corner Stone, or remain unbelieving.

If you go back and read the OT, God set all the rules for the Temple, when God
travelled with the Jewish people with the ark in that Tent, they went where God
led them, He told them where, and who was to build His Temple, how it was all
to be designed, who was allowed into it and when. There was a curtain that kept
man apart from the most Holy place, when Jesus died that curtain was torn from
top to bottom, heaven to earth. This was the work of God with man, ignoring it,
or saying it wasn't enough, is a great lack of faith in the Almighty.

Mark 15:38
And the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom.

@kellyjay said
I believe that all of man's efforts are meaningless and self serving before God, and
the only way that allows us to come to God was prepared for us by God, Jesus
Christ. No one comes to the Father but through Him, and if mankind demands
God accepts man's works and efforts, then man will be sorely disappointed! We
cannot earn our way into God's Kingdom, we cannot bribe ou ...[text shortened]... h in the Almighty.

Mark 15:38
And the curtain of the temple was torn in two, from top to bottom.

Like I said,  you believe that your God has chosen you to be spared punishment that you believe people who are not members of your religion deserve. You believe you don't even have to do anything. You believe you only have to believe certain things. You call all this "humility" but it's not.