JW Question

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
...Paul clearly equates, in a spiritual sense, the
deceleration of faith, that is, a public ministry with sacrifice. Again, i did not write the Bible, never the less, it is clear that it is a sacrifice of time and expenditure.

So, for JWs, your voluntary work is the equivalent of blood sacrifice because you claim the Bible clearly says so. And yet in the post immediately before you said that fact that it is the equivalent of a blood sacrifice is "neither here nor there". Which is it to be?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
for goodness sake, your ignorance is acutely obvious, there is no charge for
literature nor can i remember the last time i was offered a donation for it, but of
course, your vastly superior knowledge and experience in the matter supersedes
mine, do you usually proffer an opinion of what you know practically nothing about?

The sale of Jehova lking about, so just for both our sakes, just zip the lip, honestly, do yourself a
favour

You are a blooming dunce Robbie. The issue was about Thailand.

Some time ago I told you the the JWs distributing literature in TRINIDAD were asking for money. You replied that in the UK that was not allowed, and JWs are not supposed to ask for money, therefore that is not possible. How can you be so stupid.

The JWs in Trinidad ask for money. If they are not supposed to do that then they are crooked in Trinidad. Apparently some are crooked in Thailand.

Originally posted by FMF
So, for JWs, your voluntary work is the equivalent of blood sacrifice because you claim the Bible clearly says so. And yet in the post immediately before you said that fact that it is the equivalent of a blood sacrifice is "neither here nor there". Which is it to be?

It's convoluted dogmatic madness; but as ever I admire your persistence.

Originally posted by FMF
So, for JWs, your voluntary work is the equivalent of blood sacrifice because you claim the Bible clearly says so. And yet in the post immediately before you said that fact that it is the equivalent of a blood sacrifice is "neither here nor there". Which is it to be?

are you saying that its not the equivalent, oh really, then perhaps you might explain
the import of Pauls words, i reproduce them for your convenience,

(Hebrews 13:15) Through him let us always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is,
the fruit of lips which make public declaration to his name

and as for our stance, while being the equivalent of a blood sacrifice in a solely
spiritual sense this is not the primary reason why we engage in it, that would be
because we fervently believe that the application of biblical principles will help those
who apply them, so rather than take your somewhat one dimensional perspective of
either it is or it isn't a blood sacrifice, clearly it encompasses not only being the
spiritual equivalent of a blood sacrifice but that's its primary goal is to help others,
why you are having problems with this, i cannot say. Why it should disappoint you,
who can tell.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
are you saying that its not the equivalent, oh really, then perhaps you might explain
the import of Pauls words, i reproduce them for your convenience,

(Hebrews 13:15) Through him let us always offer to God a sacrifice of praise, that is,
the fruit of lips which make public declaration to his name

and as for our stance, while being the equ ...[text shortened]... ou are having problems with this, i cannot say. Why it should disappoint you,
who can tell.

But it's also your ticket to survive the Great Tribulation is it not? The JW's are the only one's who will survive the aforementioned Tribulation and you need to go out evangelising to be a member of the JW's.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
But it's also your ticket to survive the Great Tribulation is it not? The JW's are the only one's who will survive the aforementioned Tribulation and you need to go out evangelising to be a member of the JW's.

no one can earn salvation PK, you can spend a zillion million hours helping others in
this way, if the motivation for doing so is not out of love, the apostle states that its an
empty deception to do so.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no one can earn salvation PK, you can spend a zillion million hours helping others in
this way, if the motivation for doing so is not out of love, the apostle states that its an
empty deception to do so.

But only JW's will survive the 'Great Tribulation' and to be a JW you need to go out evangelising door to door. It doesn't matter how you dress it up, that is fact.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
But only JW's will survive the 'Great Tribulation' and to be a JW you need to go out evangelising door to door. It doesn't matter how you dress it up, that is fact.

no its not a fact, there is a very famous instance of a lady who spent her life in an iron
lung, she did not go from door to door, in fact she was never baptised as a witness,
how could she be, yet she helped many people around her to apply biblical principles.
We do what we can within our circumstances and salvation is not guaranteed, no one
gets in on a family ticket or a back stage pass. You cannot earn salvation.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no its not a fact, there is a very famous instance of a lady who spent her life in an iron
lung, she did not go from door to door, in fact she was never baptised as a witness,
how could she be, yet she helped many people around her to apply biblical principles.
We do what we can within our circumstances and salvation is not guaranteed, no one
gets in on a family ticket or a back stage pass.

Only JW's will survive the 'Great Tribulation' right?

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Only JW's will survive the 'Great Tribulation' right?

I dont know who will survive the great tribulation, the bible makes it clear that those
who endure to the end will be saved and those who are doing the will of God will be
saved, if that is Jehovah witnesses, then yes, only Jehovah witnesses will survive the
great tribulation. Rather interestingly there is a verse in the book of Joel, 2:32, 'those
who are evangelising are the ones that will be saved'.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I dont know who will survive the great tribulation, the bible makes it clear that those
who endure to the end will be saved and those who are doing the will of God will be
saved, if that is Jehovah witnesses, then yes, only Jehovah witnesses will survive the
great tribulation. Rather interestingly there is a verse in the book of Joel, 2:32, 'those
who are evangelising are the ones that will be saved'.

Well the Watchtower does think only JW's will survive -

"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil."

Watchtower 1989 Sep 1 p.19

and

"Similarly, Jehovah is using only one organization today to accomplish his will. To receive everlasting life in the earthly Paradise we must identify that organization and serve God as part of it."

Watchtower 1983 Feb 15 p.12

Whatever requirement a person needs to fulfill to be a member of your organisation can hardly be called a 'sacrifice' if it stops someone from being 'annihilated'. Quoting some Pauline scripture doesn't negate that fact,

It's a well documented fact that regular exercise can lead to a better quality of life in later life. I regularly give up my time to go to the gym, do i view it as a sacrifice? No, that would be silly.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Well the Watchtower does think only JW's will survive -

"Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil."

Watchtowe ...[text shortened]... up my time to go to the gym, do i view it as a sacrifice? No, that would be silly.

the watchtower is not considered to be inspired PK, never the less, let us look at the wording,

'have any Scriptural hope of surviving ', clearly this is not a guarantee of survival is
it, its a hope, that is all.

'Jehovah is using only one organization today ', it is scripturally self evident that God
has only ever used one organisation at a time, in fact he chose one family to survive
the flood, he chose one nation to represent his name, the Bible makes it clear that
there is one true faith, one baptism and one hope, if we claim that we are that channel,
then so what, are you willing to dispute it? on what basis will you dispute it?

if you are interested in Pauls verse why dont you proffer an interpretation, are you
really saying that Paul does not make the direct connection between evangelising
and sacrifice, are you PK, are you really?

going to the gym benefits no one but yourself, it can hardly be considered self
sacrificing to do so, can it?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the watchtower is not considered to be inspired PK, never the less, let us look at the wording,

'have any Scriptural hope of surviving ', clearly this is not a guarantee of survival is
it, its a hope, that is all.

'Jehovah is using only one organization today ', it is scripturally self evident that God
has only ever used one organisation a ...[text shortened]... nefits no one but yourself, it can hardly be considered self
sacrificing to do so, can it?

going to the gym benefits no one but yourself, it can hardly be considered self
sacrificing to do so, can it?

A fail of Biblical proportions. Obesity and diabetes is sweeping this nation like a pandemic. What would happen if every person in the UK went to the gym and attained a proficient level of 'General Physical Fitness' (or GPP to give it it's sexy title). All those diseases associated with being overweight would vanish resulting in a diminishing burden on the NHS thus freeing up copious amounts of cash to be spent on better things for society. £4.2 billion apparently. You charge has been slogged out the park.

As for the other part i'll get to that a little later.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
[b]going to the gym benefits no one but yourself, it can hardly be considered self
sacrificing to do so, can it?

A fail of Biblical proportions. Obesity and diabetes is sweeping this nation like a pandemic. What would happen if every person in the UK went to the gym and attained a proficient level of 'General Physical Fitness' (or GPP to give it ...[text shortened]... ge has been slogged out the park.

As for the other part i'll get to that a little later.[/b]

what if all those persons engaged in a public ministry, they would not only be getting
fit, walking from door to door but would be helping others overcome all sorts of
problems, for free! no gym fees, nuthin!

(1 Timothy 4:8) . . .For bodily training is beneficial for a little; but godly devotion is
beneficial for all things,. . .

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Why it should disappoint you, who can tell.

People will be able to tell - or not tell - from the many statements I have made about it on this thread.

are you saying that its not the equivalent, oh really, then perhaps you might explain the import of Paul's words...

So Paul's words about "sacrifice" are important, and yet they are also - as you said "neither here nor there", and - as you said "...in fifteen or more years as a voluntary worker I cannot say that the thought has ever crossed my mind."