What's the point of heaven?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i understand that you do not love sin. im saying that after weighing up the pro's and con's, you prefer a life full of sin over the alternative.

the alternative is a system, you yourself have said, is one god has put in place to save you from sin.

what you are saying is that this life, with all its sin (the one thing god wants to save you from) is better than what god thinks is best.

this to me would suggest you have big issues with god.

Yes, God has a place rather a person in Jesus Christ who saves us from sin.
God used death in my opinion to make that possible, it does not mean I
want death over the Life I find in Christ Jesus!

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes, God has a place rather a person in Jesus Christ who saves us from sin.
God used death in my opinion to make that possible, it does not mean I
want death over the Life I find in Christ Jesus!

i understand that you do not want death over life......i dont understand why.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i understand that you do not want death over life......i dont understand why.

Death is just a stop gap between this life and the one to come. There is
nothing special about it to promote anything other than show us what it is
that takes place when life ends. Why would I desire it? Life is found in God
through Jesus Christ, we are commanded to love God and each other in
that life style we see what real life is all about. Death has nothing but pain
in it when we lose those we care about. Granted what is to come is better,
but it isn't our choice as to when we go there, that is appointed unto us.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I can love a shirt and hate the pink color in it, it isn't all or nothing!
I love life, life can have goodness in it too, those parts of the way life
should be! When you see love, self sacrifice, forgiveness, grace, mercy,
and so on those things in my opinion are much greater than sin and make
my life the richer for it.

But you still love this life (warts and all) better than
what your imaginary friend has in store for you.

Why is that?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Death is just a stop gap between this life and the one to come. There is
nothing special about it to promote anything other than show us what it is
that takes place when life ends. Why would I desire it? Life is found in God
through Jesus Christ, we are commanded to love God and each other in
that life style we see what real life is all about. Death has ...[text shortened]... s to come is better,
but it isn't our choice as to when we go there, that is appointed unto us.

do you believe you will be sentient when dead or will you be aware of nothing until you are ready for judgement?

Originally posted by KellyJay
I believe death was never meant to be inevitable, but it is now.

Do you believe that there was originally a plan for humans to be immortal here on earth and for there to be no afterlife?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
do you believe you will be sentient when dead or will you be aware of nothing until you are ready for judgement?

I believe we are all sentient when we die, scripturally speaking there is no
doubt about that. If you follow some of the things Jesus said, He talked
about a rich man and a beggar who both lived and died. Because of how he
told the story I believe it was an event that actually occurred. Both of them
were well aware of and knew what was going on. The rich man asks
Abraham to warn his family about the place they were in, and he was told
no. If they don't believe with what they were already given they would not
believe if someone comes back from the dead. This turned out to be true
when Jesus raised another Lazarus from the dead in John 12:

9 Meanwhile a large crowd of Jews found out that Jesus was there and came, not only because of him but also to see Lazarus, whom he had raised from the dead. 10 So the chief priests made plans to kill Lazarus as well, 11 for on account of him many of the Jews were going over to Jesus and believing in him.

If we do not have eyes that see we will remain in the darkness.


The Rich Man and Lazarus

19 “There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 “The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

25 “But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

27 “He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

29 “Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

30 “‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

31 “He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"The whole story hinges on God seeking happiness. And of all the planets and species in the world, it's ours that matters." JS, God has always been, still is and always will be "happiness" personified. He desires to share it with you and me.

Your statement seems a bit off. (Trying to read without glasses here. )

Why 'would' God need to seek happiness and is happiness all He would wish to impart on us?

God is love. And that is what He does.
It is in and by His love that we are created. And is His wish that we share in this love.

What earth is basically, is a place for us to discover and fine tune what we are made of. And hopefully grow in God's love. It is entirely up to us.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I believe we are all sentient when we die, scripturally speaking there is no
doubt about that. If you follow some of the things Jesus said, He talked
about a rich man and a beggar who both lived and died. Because of how he
told the story I believe it was an event that actually occurred. Both of them
were well aware of and knew what was going on. The ric ...[text shortened]... ten to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

and what kind of place will you be in? will all other dead people be there?

Originally posted by stellspalfie
and what kind of place will you be in? will all other dead people be there?

Doesn't matter to me as long as Christ is there.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Doesn't matter to me as long as Christ is there.

i find it odd that you would strongly defend staying in this sinful existence on the grounds that its important for you to be with your family............but in the next breath you dont care who you are with in death, as long as jesus it there.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
Your statement seems a bit off. (Trying to read without glasses here. )

Why 'would' God need to seek happiness and is happiness all He would wish to impart on us?

God is love. And that is what He does.
It is in and by His love that we are created. And is His wish that we share in this love.

What earth is basically, is a place for us to discover and fine tune what we are made of. And hopefully grow in God's love. It is entirely up to us.

All that is just wishful thinking. Heaven would be like contaminating a deities inner chamber with termites.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
i find it odd that you would strongly defend staying in this sinful existence on the grounds that its important for you to be with your family............but in the next breath you dont care who you are with in death, as long as jesus it there.

You have a point? I'm confident that with Christ all of those that come to
Him will also be there. I'm not worried about death.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You have a point? I'm confident that with Christ all of those that come to
Him will also be there. I'm not worried about death.

THAT is is main point of heaven. So you won't worry about death.

I don't worry about death because I know I have a legacy. You don't worry about death because of your mistaken belief a deity is so interested in humans it would populate this alleged heaven with sycophants.

I don't think ANY deity would NEED to have humans worship it.

That would be like humans having an ant colony and expecting the ants to worship the human caretakers. It just won't happen.

Anthropomorphising a deity is a sure sign of man made religions.