Is Disfellowship Physically and Spiritually Necessary

Originally posted by roigam
That certainly would be our Christian hope for him.
(Acts 3:19) “Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, so that seasons of refreshing may come from Jehovah himself

Yes that would be a wonderful result we would love to see for him. Only time and the drawing close to Jehovah for guidance will work for this gentleman and his family.
I also hope he will see very soon that advice from ones who do not know Jehovah may not be the way to go for his spiritual health.
They do not even know Jehovah or even simply recognize his name, so how could they direct him spiritually?

JAMES 4:8, “Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you.”

2 Ch 15:2, "Jehovah is with you as long as you remain with him; and if you search for him, he will let himself be found by you, but if you abandon him, he will abandon you".

Originally posted by roigam
That certainly would be our Christian hope for him.
(Acts 3:19) “Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out, so that seasons of refreshing may come from Jehovah himself

The only reason he or anyone else gets disfellowshiped is not because of the sin, but because of lack or repentance. The door is always open to those who want to live by Biblical standards. For those that dont, well, as John states,

'They went out from us, but they were not of our sort for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort' - 1 John 2:19

Christ knows who the sheep are and the sheep know who the fine shepherd is. 🙂

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The only reason he or anyone else gets disfellowshiped is not because of the sin, but because of lack or repentance. The door is always open to those who want to live by Biblical standards. For those that dont, well, as John states,

'They went out from us, but they were not of our sort for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained wi ...[text shortened]... - 1 John 2:19

Christ knows who the sheep are and the sheep know who the fine shepherd is. 🙂

Ah, the veritable jester himself also comes to kick the man.

Originally posted by galveston75
Yes that would be a wonderful result we would love to see for him. Only time and the drawing close to Jehovah for guidance will work for this gentleman and his family.
I also hope he will see very soon that advice from ones who do not know Jehovah may not be the way to go for his spiritual health.
They do not even know Jehovah or even simply recogni ...[text shortened]... arch for him, he will let himself be found by you, but if you abandon him, he will abandon you".

It's quite nauseating to see you three falling over each other in a belayed and pious attempt to appear caring, after your multiple accusations of dishonesty and self-seeking aimed at beauroberts. Do you think you lot stroking each other is a substitute for genuine kindness. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The only reason he or anyone else gets disfellowshiped is not because of the sin, but because of lack or repentance. The door is always open to those who want to live by Biblical standards.

If the JW elders in beauroberts' case did try to turn wife against him and get her to leave him, and in so doing take his children away from him too, what Biblical verses to justify this action do you suppose they cited? And supposing the elders did try to break up beauroberts' family over the issue of a life saving blood transfusion, do you condemn their action? If they did what they are described as having done,do you think they would deserve to be disfellowshipped?

Originally posted by divegeester
It's quite nauseating to see you three falling over each other in a belayed and pious attempt to appear caring, after your multiple accusations of dishonesty and self-seeking aimed at beauroberts. Do you think you lot stroking each other is a substitute for genuine kindness. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.

“Haters are identified as people who offer solely negative criticism to others, without justification. Haters deal in negative cognitive bias, prejudicially arriving at a conclusion first and then drawing in their reasons afterward, refusing to alter their conclusion with exposure to the opinions of others. Haters are frequently thought of as imposing their self-hate on others.”

Think about people that are grumpy. What do they want? Some company. Sometimes they do this by sharing that negativity. Other times they do it to bring others down to their level by shaming them.

Think about a happy, healthy person. Do they take joy in bringing down others? No. Generally, they want to lift people up.

What’s the big deal with haters anyways?

When you take a look at an abusive partner in a relationship you see a person that must be in control over their victim. Going to great lengthens of emotional, verbal and sometimes physical abuse, the goal is to make their victim feel worthless, while convincing them that they deserve the poor treatment they receive. This is a pattern you see in bullying.

It is say that these abusive relationships start off like sunshine and lollipops. But like a slow emotional poison they implement their stance on their victim. Sometimes the abused gets a clear enough head to see what’s really going on and gets away from the abuser. Unfortunately in the most several cases the abusers will continue to try and harass the original victim, stalking them after the relationship ends.

Understanding the psychology behind the hater’s motives:

We’ve establish that their real goal is to feel in control and superior over you. They do this by trying to make you feel poorly about yourself with their words, pictures and even videos. It’s like an addiction to hurting people. They only get off and feel better if someone feels horrible about themselves or think they might.

Think about that for a moment:

Could you imaging living like that? Never being able to be happy for another person, because you want what they have? You feel they are above you and want to bring them down to your level. Instead of accepting it and using it as motivation to do more in your life, you sought out people that have the things you want and troll them. You want them to feel pain, something you don’t want to cope with let alone admit that you are experiencing.

It’s not about YOU:

If you’re suddenly feeling empathy for that jerk that just trashed you, you’re not alone. By now you’ve probably realized that your “hater” has some deeply seeded issues. With a grip on reality you’re able to appreciate your blessings. While people that struggle with their perception in life can have a great deal of trouble. I am talking about that kid/teen/adult that is hiding behind a computer and possibility bullying you too. He or she may be desperately trying and hold on to the one thing they feel they have control over. The thing distracting them from their failures and self-hate.

It does not sound like a very rewarding life to me. How about you?

How do we fight the hate?
The natural reaction is to be hurt, upset, angry or even outraged. What we do with that energy, is where the power comes into play. We do not have control over the other people in our lives but we do have control in how we respond.

https://dontkilmavibe.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/why-haters-are-your-motivators/

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
https://dontkilmavibe.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/why-haters-are-your-motivators/

The material at this link could just as easily be applied to members of a religious group who orchestrate ostracism and psychological abuse of members and former members for doing things like saving a life. But the question remains, is disfellowship physically and spiritually necessary (the thread's question)?

Originally posted by FMF
The material at this link could just as easily be applied to members of a religious group who orchestrate ostracism and psychological abuse of members and former members for doing things like saving a life. But the question remains, is disfellowship physically and spiritually necessary (the thread's question)?

The practice of disfellowshipping is Biblically established. If you want to live by Biblical standards then its necessary, the Bible is quite clear on the matter. If you don't, then its meaningless. Why this should be difficult to understand i cannot say, its crystal clear in my mind.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
The practice of disfellowshipping is Biblically established. If you want to live by Biblical standards then its necessary, the Bible is quite clear on the matter. If you don't, then its meaningless. Why this should be difficult to understand i cannot say, its crystal clear in my mind.

If the JW elders in beauroberts' case tried to turn his wife against him and split up his family, what specific Biblical verses to justify this action do you suppose those elders cited?

Originally posted by FMF
If the JW elders in beauroberts' case tried to turn his wife against him and split up his family, what specific Biblical verses to justify this action do you suppose those elders cited?

sorry uninterested in scenarios that i was not party to and know next to nothing about, ask someone that knows something about what actually happened, that would not be me. If the question is hypothetical then again I am uninterested in speculating over fantasy scenarios. I prefer reality to be honest, but hey thanks anyway, its always pleasant to escape for a little while.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sorry uninterested in scenarios that i was not party to and know next to nothing about, ask someone that knows something about what actually happened, that would not be me. if the question is hypothetical then again i am uninterested in speculating over fantasy scenarios. I prefer reality to be honest, but hey thanks anyway.

The question is not hypothetical because it was a reality for beauroberts. If the elders did what he describes them as having done, would you condemn it and would you expect them to be disfellowshipped for doing it?

Originally posted by FMF
The question is not hypothetical because it was a reality for beauroberts. If the elders did what he describes them as having done, would you condemn it and would you expect them to be disfellowshipped for doing it?

Sorry i have no way of knowing what actually happened and prefer not to comment when i have limited knowledge of a situation.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Sorry i have no way of knowing what actually happened and prefer not to comment when i have limited knowledge of a situation.

We have already been through the whole thing of JWs here questioning beauroberts' integrity on this thread, so we can perhaps just leave that aside.

According to JW principles and procedures, according to your understanding of them, would trying to turn a person's spouse against them or separate them from their children be a 'disfellowshippable' transgression?

Originally posted by FMF
We have already been through the whole thing of JWs here questioning beauroberts' integrity on this thread, so we can perhaps just leave that aside.

According to JW principles and procedures, according to your understanding of them, would trying to turn a person's spouse against them or separate them from their children be a 'disfellowshippable' transgression?

beauroberts integrity is not in question. I simply have no way of knowing what actually happened and prefer not to comment, why this should have any bearing on his integrity i cannot say.

Separation according to scripture is a personal issue and a wife or husband may choose to separate. The Bible does provide for separation and in certain circumstances it may be advisable, like domestic abuse for example. But ultimately its a personal decision for a husband or wife.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Separation according to scripture is a personal issue and a wife or husband may choose to separate.

If elders tried to turn a person's spouse against them or separate them from their children, would this - in your view - be an action warranting disfellowship?