anti-Christ

@fmf said
Yes.

You wouldn't explore alternative explanations for what he experienced? You would just have Dive pegged as delusional?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Quite a weak proposition to be honest, as it goes both ways. People believing something (that you consider false) doesn't evidence they are delusional. - If it did, I would judge all theists as delusional. (Which I don't).

Quite a weak proposition to be honest, as it goes both ways.

I disagree. It is you who is trying to argue that someone's honesty precludes the thing they "misconstrue" from being a delusion.

@fmf said
Quite a weak proposition to be honest, as it goes both ways.

I disagree. It is you who is trying to argue that someone's honesty precludes the thing they "misconstrue" from being a delusion.

Actually it is you who are unwilling to consider alternatives to delusional thinking.

Take for example a chap who misconstrues a weather balloon for a UFO. Was he delusional in his original observation, or simply misinterpreting what he saw?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You wouldn't explore alternative explanations for what he experienced? You would just have Dive pegged as delusional?

I would no doubt talk to him endlessly about it. He is a close friend. Having him "just pegged as delusional" would not be part of it. But I see what you are trying to do with your question.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Actually it is you who are unwilling to consider alternatives to delusional thinking.

I see it as part of a pattern and the contributing factors have been talked about.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Take for example a chap who misconstrues a weather balloon for a UFO. Was he delusional in his original observation, or simply misinterpreting what he saw?

Answer: Misinterpreting what he saw. If he later found out that it was a weather balloon but continued to insist it was a UFO, and if there were factors like "high stress" and "drug abuse", no matter how "honest" he was, I'd view him as being delusional.

@fmf said
Answer: Misinterpreting what he saw. If he later found out that it was a weather balloon but continued to insist it was a UFO, and if there were factors like "high stress" and "drug abuse", no matter how "honest" he was, I'd view him as being delusional.

What if he never found out it was a weather balloon and continued to believe it was a UFO? Would he be delusional?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
What if he never found out it was a weather balloon and continued to believe it was a UFO? Would he be delusional?

Perhaps. If there were factors like "high stress" and "drug abuse", then most likely yes. Does this UFO-spotter in your analogy have a track record as a fantasist and narcissist?

@fmf said
Perhaps. If there were factors like "high stress" and "drug abuse", then most likely yes. Does this UFO-spotter in your analogy have a track record as a fantasist and narcissist?

It (genuinely) is a great pity you are unable to remain objective.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
It (genuinely) is a great pity you are unable to remain objective.

Well, I don't think you are being objective. I think you are hamstrung by your desire to be "helpful" to - and stand by - a friend, even to the point of getting in a tangle about how "honesty" about something precludes it from being a delusion. That's a pretzel, to my way of thinking.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Take for example a chap who misconstrues a weather balloon for a UFO. Was he delusional in his original observation, or simply misinterpreting what he saw?

In this analogy, did he claim to have had a conversation with the lifeform inside the UFO?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Can you link to her original post?

No.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You are certainly referencing the account Dive has posted numerous times, but I strongly suspect that he has embellished the original account.

I am being entirely honest and divegeester hasn't said anything inaccurate.

@fmf said
Well, I don't think you are being objective. I think you are hamstrung by your desire to be "helpful" to - and stand by - a friend, even to the point of getting in a tangle about how "honesty" about something precludes it from being a delusion. That's a pretzel, to my way of thinking.

It 'is' possible to be honest about something and also be delusional. I don't however think this applies to the accounts being discussed. I believe it is more likely a case of honest misinterpretation of events, influenced yes by a stressful situation and pre-held beliefs.

@fmf said
In this analogy, did he claim to have had a conversation with the lifeform inside the UFO?

Again, did I miss a post about the angel being discussed having wings and hovering off the ground? - I am suggesting a kindly human being could be misconstrued as 'angelic' by a theist, during a traumatic event. (Without the need for any hallucinations or delusional thought).