23 Jun 23
@indonesia-phil saidYou don't have evolution without life, abiogenesis is life from non-life, and those who hold to that view must accept all of the instructions found in life also were inserted into life at that point.
No, that isn't what I'm saying, and it isn't what I said. Read my post again and have another go at understanding it.
24 Jun 23
@kellyjay saidDoes someone else sometimes write your posts for you? I ask because everything you posit here is nonsense, (a snake cannot talk, for example) but your posts are at least usually decipherable, and then you come up with one of these.
You have never heard me say anything to the contrary, go back and look at all of my posts they are about mind and mindlessness. If life is programmed to behave in a way that causes what we/some would cause evolution it is programmed to do just that. If you think evolution is from a common ancestor and it is encoded into life to do that, that is one of the most incredible f ...[text shortened]... what is there is far more complex.
I've been here a long time do a search if you think I'm wrong.
Your first paragraph, last sentence is a classic; what is there, and what is destroying it, what are you on about?
If you now accept the fact of evolution, you must also accept the timescales required for evolution to occur, (which is more than 6000 years) and that, since the simplest life - form, life has become ever more complex, by gradual degrees. 500,000,000 years of nothing but single - celled life would be a good thing to try to get your head around. Nothing is 'programmed.'
25 Jun 23
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@indonesia-phil saidYou are the only one here talking about snakes, you can take that to the Spiritual forum, it doesn't let you off the hook of the unexplainable in your worldview.
Does someone else sometimes write your posts for you? I ask because everything you posit here is nonsense, (a snake cannot talk, for example) but your posts are at least usually decipherable, and then you come up with one of these.
Your first paragraph, last sentence is a classic; what is there, and what is destroying it, what are you on about?
If you now accept ...[text shortened]... single - celled life would be a good thing to try to get your head around. Nothing is 'programmed.'
I am telling you the time scales can be whatever you want them to be it does not help your narrative it hurts it because extra time trying to do something that cannot be done without intervention is not going to help you. Gradual degrees aren't going to start a cell, the cell is like a factory that generates all of the requirements for replication properly, without the cell you don't have anything that can do the replication properly, instead all of the parts will not be enclosed within a cell, they will be outside of it where they will be roaming free interacting with anything.
If you happen to get a lot of the right chemicals in the right area, in a good environment, they will not automatically connect properly with just those things needed to produce life. A single misstep means starting over is the only option, you can only do that so many times before all the required ingredients for life are used up, it isn't all the time in the world that you need, you need to overcome some great odds, far worst than getting a string of royal flushes to occur over and over again one after another non-stop getting all of the pieces together before something ruins the product.
25 Jun 23
@KellyJay
Time scales are what they are and we cannot change that.
Would you tell us if you believed Earth to be only 8000 years old like some idiots have concluded from the bible.
Can you be a Christian and NOT believe that?
25 Jun 23
@sonhouse saidI don't care what time scales you want to use, double them for all I care. I'm not pushing young earth, and you and no one else here have even attempted to show how a mindless process could do the things we see in life. But almost all if not all have tried to turn this into a religious discussion, even here, Is that the best you got? You cannot justify the mechanism you claim did and does the work so you change the subject with insults to make it seem like you know when in fact you are clueless.
@KellyJay
Time scales are what they are and we cannot change that.
Would you tell us if you believed Earth to be only 8000 years old like some idiots have concluded from the bible.
Can you be a Christian and NOT believe that?
25 Jun 23
1 edit
@kellyjay saidYeah, all those chemicals, eh, turn your back and they just disappear....You can't use 'odds against' as an argument to try to disprove the spontaneous beginning of life, since all of the evidence tells us that life began. To replace that with ancient, mythological creator entities is intellectually weak, and completely scientifically baseless.
You are the only one here talking about snakes, you can take that to the Spiritual forum, it doesn't let you off the hook of the unexplainable in your worldview.
I am telling you the time scales can be whatever you want them to be it does not help your narrative it hurts it because extra time trying to do something that cannot be done without intervention is not going to ...[text shortened]... in one after another non-stop getting all of the pieces together before something ruins the product.
Okay so since this is the Science Forum, I'd like to ask you what scientific evidence do you have that snakes could once talk? See, wherever you put your talking snake it's still just as ridiculous, unless you have an answer?
And you still haven't told us what scientific method your pseudo scientist employed to conclude that the Christian god must have done it, as opposed to any other god.
Anywhere with that yet?
26 Jun 23
@indonesia-phil saidThey do not disappear, what will happen however the reactions that take place alters what is there, and when those reactions alter them into things that are not compatible with life, those are opportunities that don't come back. As I said, once the necessary material is used up, it isn't like you can go to the store and buy more.
Yeah, all those chemicals, eh, turn your back and they just disappear....You can't use 'odds against' as an argument to try to disprove the spontaneous beginning of life, since all of the evidence tells us that life began. To replace that with ancient, mythological creator entities is intellectually weak, and completely scientifically baseless.
Okay so since this ...[text shortened]... ude that the Christian god must have done it, as opposed to any other god.
Anywhere with that yet?
Take the spiritual stuff to the other forum, and bring up a real scientist in your eyes that disputes the things Tour said, while you are it, you have something we can look at that allows mindlessness to do what is in life.
26 Jun 23
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@KellyJay
It is intellectually weak because you believe in a myth several thousand years old before anyone knew much about science but you persist in thinking Earth is 8000 years old and goddidit and you don't care a lick about science.
You know, we already talked about the 7 day creation tale but it is at least a thousand years older than Christianity, made up in Egypt long before Christ.
That last is not about religion, it is history.
26 Jun 23
@sonhouse saidEarth to sonhouse, you have not seen me saying anything about a young earth, why don't you just stick to the things I do say? For crying out loud you are stuck in a mental fog and cannot get past that.
@KellyJay
It is intellectually weak because you believe in a myth several thousand years old before anyone knew much about science but you persist in thinking Earth is 8000 years old and goddidit and you don't care a lick about science.
You know, we already talked about the 7 day creation tale but it is at least a thousand years older than Christianity, made up in Egypt long before Christ.
That last is not about religion, it is history.
26 Jun 23
1 edit
@KellyJay
A few years ago we had this discussion where you believed Earth was 8K years old.
If you are not pushing young Earth, how can you continue to call yourself Christian since that is a fundamental tenant of Christianity.
26 Jun 23
@sonhouse saidI still believe in a young earth, but that does not have anything to do with this thread now does it? How is it that when science questions are asked theology answers in the negative are brought out to answer them as you have continued to do, and if theology questions get asked, science gets brought out? Do you guys ever stay on topic?
@KellyJay
A few years ago we had this discussion where you believed Earth was 8K years old.
If you are not pushing young Earth, how can you continue to call yourself Christian since that is a fundamental tenant of Christianity.
26 Jun 23
@sonhouse saidI don't need you to tell me what the fundamental tenants of my faith are, again not part of this discussion.
@KellyJay
A few years ago we had this discussion where you believed Earth was 8K years old.
If you are not pushing young Earth, how can you continue to call yourself Christian since that is a fundamental tenant of Christianity.
27 Jun 23
@sonhouse saidIf you want to talk about the age of the earth go ahead, and you can start a thread, this one I'm asking about mind and mindlessness. You have not offered up a single theory or thought about why mindlessness could do it outside of bringing in scripture and faith. That just leads me to believe the only reason you complain has nothing to do with facts, evidence, logic, or even science but your views on religion. Are your complaints about mind and mindlessness only due to your distaste of religion, or are there factual reasons, reasonable theories, or something you can point to that says mindlessness could do it outside of your personal preference?
@KellyJay
Why can't you tell me what you REALLY feel is the age of Earth? Like I said, how can you be Christian but NOT believe Earth is that young.
27 Jun 23
@sonhouse saidYou don't bother reading everything said to you do you, I admitted in a post or two back I still believed in a young earth, but NOT PART OF THIS DISCUSSION.
@KellyJay
Why can't you tell me what you REALLY feel is the age of Earth? Like I said, how can you be Christian but NOT believe Earth is that young.