Suzanne’s Post, Fact, Fiction, Christian? Let’s Come Together!

@indonesia-phil said
True to form, you have not addressed either of the points I raised. Can you see the difference between someone dying in a road accident and someone being deliberately put to death?
My other point was, how can anyone be truly innocent and full of sin at the same time? Go on, have another go.

Innocent of the crime that they are standing trial for, is possible while at the same time being guilty of a lifetime of sins. Keep in mind God transcends time so He sees the whole thing from beginning to end. That also means everything done is before Him that we did our whole lives. I can only imagine that at judgement day He will remove our blinders so we too will see it all, every secret deed will be revealed. It will be a day of no excuses all will be revealed.

We need a Savior!

@kellyjay said
Keep in mind God transcends time so He sees the whole thing from beginning to end. That also means everything done is before Him that we did our whole lives.

I have never done anything "equally as evil as" raping a woman. If you feel you have, and your misanthropic beliefs give you solace, so be it.

@kellyjay said
I can only imagine that at judgement day He will remove our blinders so we too will see it all, every secret deed will be revealed.

"Secret deed"?

Secret from whom?

@kellyjay said
Well depending on the crime, today depending on who you talk to simply belonging to a specific nationality is enough. If you have a notion that there are absolute standards for human behavior, where are you getting your information, what are your primary documents, and when looking at your documents how do you know what is more important within all your criteria?

What scripture do you think has Jesus doing away with capital punishment?

Would you support a law in your country that made provision for the execution of homosexuals? Or for disrespectful children?

“If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you."

You asked: "What scripture do you think has Jesus doing away with capital punishment?"

@kellyjay said

What scripture do you think has Jesus doing away with capital punishment?

Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

In other words, only those who are faultless have the right to pass judgment upon others (clearly implying no one is faultless or has the right to pass judgment).

@kellyjay said
An eye for an eye was a limiting factor so people didn’t go beyond the crime, a just recompense, instead of a life ending torturing death for a minor infraction.

You do realise Jesus updated that OT nonsense?

“You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. ' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matthew 5:38-39 RSV).

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

In other words, only those who are faultless have the right to pass judgment upon others (clearly implying no one is faultless or has the right to pass judgment).

You think when Jesus said that all systems of justice were abolished because now everyone who could complain about a crime is guilty of something so now we live in a lawless society? So all murderers are free to murder because something in your life prohibits you from saying, guilty? If you condemn someone for something you are doing, that shows your hypocrisy, judge not least you are judged with the same judgment. That does not do away with judgment, but it puts a fine line between righteousness and keeping one free of hypocrisy. The law did not disappear when Jesus came it is a teacher, and grace is now the gift through faith. Jesus warned us about a lot of things we shouldn't be doing and told us why He came, to save sinners, and He told us about judgment as well. You are putting more into that verse than is there. Read the scripture as it is there, your other words are your other words.

@kellyjay said
You think when Jesus said that all systems of justice were abolished because now everyone who could complain about a crime is guilty of something so now we live in a lawless society? So all murderers are free to murder because something in your life prohibits you from saying, guilty? If you condemn someone for something you are doing, that shows your hypocrisy, judge not l ...[text shortened]... that verse than is there. Read the scripture as it is there, your other words are your other words.

Such convolution.

@kellyjay said
You think when Jesus said that all systems of justice were abolished because now everyone who could complain about a crime is guilty of something so now we live in a lawless society? So all murderers are free to murder because something in your life prohibits you from saying, guilty? If you condemn someone for something you are doing, that shows your hypocrisy, judge not l ...[text shortened]... that verse than is there. Read the scripture as it is there, your other words are your other words.

Have another go.

@kellyjay said
You think when Jesus said that all systems of justice were abolished because now everyone who could complain about a crime is guilty of something so now we live in a lawless society? So all murderers are free to murder because something in your life prohibits you from saying, guilty? If you condemn someone for something you are doing, that shows your hypocrisy, judge not l ...[text shortened]... that verse than is there. Read the scripture as it is there, your other words are your other words.

Why not post a link to your Church’s statement of beliefs so readers can actually understand what it is you are trying to say?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You do realise Jesus updated that OT nonsense?

“You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. ' But I say to you, Do not resist one who is evil. But if any one strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also" (Matthew 5:38-39 RSV).

Yes, we are told to pray for our enemies, that too comes from the OT. What I said only gave a little clarity to an eye for an eye, it put a limit on what punishment could be dealt out so a powerful person could not strip another of life and property for something so small as a perceived insult. Jesus raised the bar on how we are to deal with others, instead of vengeance grace, when there is a need to meet them, forgive for things done to you so you could be forgiven. What that is not saying is if someone rapes another, the one raped must forgive and they are let off the hook because everyone else is a sinner too, after all, God said forgive.

The one who was raped should forgive, but the rapist must still be prosecuted. Forgiveness is a healing requirement so those lives attacked are not destroyed, they are not ruined by becoming a perpetual victim of a crime that happened once to them, if they carry that hate and self-loathing around after that, it then redefines them forever as a victim.

Grace makes room for all to be saved, look back into the OT, when David sinned, was He simply left off the hook without consequence, even though He was forgiven? Jesus asked the Father to forgive them for what they had just done to Him, and Stephen asked God not to put that charge on those killing him in the middle of his death.

We can live in a world of judgment, hate, holding grudges, or grace and mercy. God's righteousness was not set aside due to His grace being given, one was not ignored so the other could act! God's mercy was shown to us through God's righteousness, He was and is aware of everything we have done, and still acted on our behalf on the cross. None of that abolishes justice on the earth, but with eyes wide grace can be given, and our deeds are not swept under the rug like they never happened, Jesus took our guilt in loving grace through His righteousness.

You are looking for something not in scripture, where all judicial systems were abolished.

@kellyjay said
Jesus raised the bar on how we are to deal with others, instead of vengeance grace, when there is a need to meet them, forgive for things done to you so you could be forgiven. What that is not saying is if someone rapes another, the one raped must forgive and they are let off the hook because everyone else is a sinner too, after all, God said forgive.

The one who was rap ...[text shortened]... hey carry that hate and self-loathing around after that, it then redefines them forever as a victim.

This doesn’t align with your version of God and his forgiveness. Which is that God is vengeful and will burn people alive in hell.

Why can’t your version of God forgive them the same way you are exhorting this hypothetical rape victim to forgive their assailant?

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Have another go.

Why, we have different standards, where you go to get your you have not man up and declared why you think the way you do. You misrepresent text by adding your twist to it to make it say what you want.

@kellyjay said
Why, we have different standards, where you go to get your you have not man up and declared why you think the way you do. You misrepresent text by adding your twist to it to make it say what you want.

You need to have another go as you are failing to provide a valid Christian argument.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You need to have another go as you are failing to provide a valid Christian argument.

So claims, what an Atheist, or whatever you claim to be that is not a Christian.