Never doubt the Word of God!!! - email

Originally posted by dj2becker
I guess that is caused by all the unsubstantiated claims you make.

Originally posted by Starrman
Okay dj, I've read your pamphlet, will you fulfill your side of the bargain?

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
No, it's caused by your usual desire to keep your debate opponents busy answering stupid questions.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Are you going to share your thoughts on the pamphlet, so that I can fulfil my part of the bargain? 😏

Originally posted by Starrman
Sure, where do you want me to start? Any specific questions, it's a big read.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Firstly, do you believe that this is the real, true experience that my pastor had or do you think this was all made up?

I don't doubt that he was preaching to the Zulus, nor his period of doubt and then reaffirmation took place. But I doubt his recounting of miracles and indeed that his spiritual change was anything more than his own mind coming through periods of self realisation.

Would it convince you if you came here and saw everything that happens here?

I doubt it, unless you could present me with an actual miracle. I am sure you try and do good work from your perception, though I doubt the neccessity of your actions of course and disagree with turning a people from their own spiritual choice to conform with yours.

*Just for example, this past Sunday we had a fire service. Two witchdoctors came to the front and testified how Jesus Christ had set them free from the power of Satan. They brought all their witchcraft fetishes to be burnt. Among other things to be burnt were stolen goods which could not be returned, pornographic material, many occult objects and lots of other stuff that many converts had brought to be burnt.

Tell me, what other benefits do these people who come to you recieve? Food? Education (non-religious)? Other?

Edit: Just for interest sake, one of the witchdoctors who had known nothing of Christianity before his conversion was clinically dead for some time. During this time he says that He saw a man in a glistening white robe seated in front of a que of about 50km long that consisted of people of all nationalities. He had a very large book in front of Him which he opened and checked whether each persons name was there. If it was absent they would be cast into a large bottomless pit. When it was his turn he fell before the judge and pleaded for one more chance. He was told to go back to the earth and warn the poeple that the end was drawing near. And just by the way there are many other people that have had similar such experiences even though they knew nothing of Christianity. You can also read about the judge and the book scenario in the book of Revelation in the Bible.

There is no proof a) that this is what he actually experienced b) that he did not know some small amount about the god of the Christians, even if from idle speculation with other Zulus c) that even if he really did see this, it has anything to do with god, I often have dreams of a similar nature, but dreams are just imagination at play. It is perfectly likely that NDEs are no different in that respect.

Originally posted by Starrman
Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]Firstly, do you believe that this is the real, true experience that my pastor had or do you think this was all made up?

I don't doubt that he was preaching to the Zulus, nor his period of doubt and then reaffirmation took place. But I doubt his recounting of miracles and indeed that his spiritual change was ...[text shortened]... e just imagination at play. It is perfectly likely that NDEs are no different in that respect.[/b]

Originally posted by dj2becker
Do you doubt the way in which the reaffirmation took place? I mean do you doubt that the Holy Spirit of God came down from Heaven as it did in a similar way that is described in the Book of Acts?

Yes, I find that people can enhance their experiences to coincide with their expectations quite dramatically. What was simply a wind becomes the holy spirit.

So if you came to visit me and saw the miracles that happen here everyday, would you also just have some natural explanation for that?

If there was a natural explanation for it that fell within the bounds of reason, then I would have to opt for that over a supernatural one. If there was no natural explanation then obviously, despite my curren lack of belief, I would have to acceed to the possibility of it. It depends what and how powerful the event was.


What would you regard as an actual miracle?

Something which could not be explained through any natural reasoning, instead requiring a belief in the supernatural.

So you don't agree that a person should come to us out of their own free will and tell us that they want to serve the God we serve just because they have been convicted by the Holy Spirit of God?

I believe people should follow their hearts' desires. But I find the idea of missionaries distasteful. Whilst you may not go out and demand they turn to your god, your pastor set up the site to effectively do just that.

Did you read the part in the book when the people just came from no where in the middle of the night asking to confess their sins because they were on their way to hell? When the people were asked who told them this they said nobody. Don't you believe that this is the working of the Holy Spirit as it is explained in the Bible?

No I believe that either they did know and were lying, or had gained some sort of idea by association, ie: they had heard on the grapevine without being actually told.

The people that come to us for help receive free accomodation and food. They also receive a wealth of spiritual food daily. We also have a school and tertiary institution for those who feel led to make use of them.

My reason for asking was that I would suggest your offer of food and accommodation may have tempted these people to venture to you where otherwise they would not have.

As you wish. You are not forced to believe anything... But do you have any idea what sorcery is all about? How do you explain fortune telling and divination? Surely you must have been exposed to some form of witchcraft. Do you think that this is all made up?

During my late teens and early twenties, I privately studied the occult in many forms, though predominately western magika practice, such noteable practitioners of what you would call witchcraft as Eliphas Levi, Aleister Crowley etc. From all I have read I still remain of the conviction that such practice, as with that of divination, clairvoyancy etc. is but charlatan chicanery.

Bump for dj

Originally posted by stocken
Prove me wrong by having me removed from this earth within the week or let the world know (well RHP:ers at least) that next to Bon you're a con.

Originally posted by Nicolaas
This is quite an interresting e-mail I received about 5 min ago.

dj2becker.... Still waiting...

Sorry pal. I'm away for another week. Only have about 2 minutes to make my moves. Hang in there...😞

Originally posted by stocken
Actually, it's over a week now.

Originally posted by stocken
Dear God.

A week has now passed and I am sitting here at my desk just sorting out a little work and getting ready for my next project. Since you haven't struck me down with thy almighty power I can only assume that indeed, Bon - my protector and saviour - is your master and king.

Since I am not in the habit of gloating or striking at the weak, I ...[text shortened]... fering that you may endure during your... correction.

Bye now, and Bon bless you,
Stocken