Originally posted by divegeesterBecause it is. It doesn't exactly affect us in the here and now. If you're saved, you're saved, if you're not, then maybe you've got some work to do, IF you accept that Jesus is Lord. Banging on about this isn't going to bring people to God if they don't believe, the veil must be pierced first. I think a far more important part of Christian doctrine should be bringing more people to Christ, especially in these "latter days", either young people who don't know him yet, or the older population (those who may have been "too busy" in their younger years to spend much time thinking about the hereafter) or the "lost" segment of population (the people others have forgotten), the homeless, the disabled, the veterans, the poor, the convicted.
Are you going to continue the exchange you started with me on the previous page Suzianne? I asked you why you consider the teaching that many Christians adhere strongly to, of Christ torturing unbelievers for eternity, to be a "minor point of Christian doctrine"?
If you want to change the minds of already saved Christians, this is not the place. As we get older, we become more set in our ways, and our beliefs settle around us like concrete. If you just want to argue, that's one thing, but if you actually want to effect change, it just ain't happening here, I'm afraid.
I'm going to suggest something that may be rather shocking to you. Look around and find a church that believes most closely with your beliefs, and then attend services. Go to a few extra-Sunday meetings and gatherings to gauge the minds of those who attend with you. Talk to some of them about their beliefs. Try to finally get a feel as to what the "man-in-the-street" Christians really believe and how it narrates their lives. You might learn a few things.
Originally posted by divegeesterIf you don't like getting back what you're always serving up then you know what you can do about it. Or at the very least you should know.
You re-entered this thread and immediately began criticising me to another poster. You did this to reopen the animosity between us. Fine. I simply responded to you directly, rather than via another poster, letting you know what I think of you. You are a proven repeated liar and and an asshat of the highest order. Whether you are moved by my comments or not is irrelevant to me.
It's not very complicated or difficult to understand...you can either keep serving up the same old crap, or you can try serving up something else.
But continually complaining about it coming back onto you can only serve to make you look very small... it makes you look like a spoiled self serving brat. So come on, be honest, is this the sort of image of yourself you want to put on display? Is this really how you want to be seen?
Or have you completely lost your mind, and lost (or perhaps never had) the ability to see yourself as others do?
11 Jul 15
Originally posted by divegeesterAnd what's up with your new avatar? I can't really see the details in these small images without my reading glasses.
Are you going to continue the exchange you started with me on the previous page Suzianne? I asked you why you consider the teaching that many Christians adhere strongly to, of Christ torturing unbelievers for eternity, to be a "minor point of Christian doctrine"?
Is that Jack Nicholson in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest?
11 Jul 15
Originally posted by Suzianneyep, that's what it is... Jack Nicholson stirring up a bit of mischief inside the funny farm asylum. I got new glasses last week, so now I can see those tiny little avatars on my tiny little lap top screen.
And what's up with your new avatar? I can't really see the details in these small images without my reading glasses.
Is that Jack Nicholson in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest?
I was going to suggest to divegeester that he ignore me and focus more of his attention on what you've been telling him, but if I'm the one telling him this then I'm afraid it will have the opposite effect... so I'm suggesting this in a message to you instead of to him.
12 Jul 15
4 edits
Originally posted by SuzianneI remind you once again:
Ok, one slightly weird thing among... well, no others.
I don't see him creating thread after thread about it to satisfy his own ego, or lambasting and accosting everyone else, canvassing (or demanding a statement of) their belief on it, or him making it his raison d'etre.
- it was sonship who started this thread, not me
- it is you who is defending sonship's beliefs stating that the teaching that Jesus will be in hell (or wherever) observing the supernaturally sustained eternal torture of billions of human beings, is a "minor point of Christian doctrine"
- it is you who repeatedly "lambasts" Rakj999, calling him a "hypocrite" and writing lengthy posts attacking his beliefs, and yet you attack me for attacking sonship because you think you think what he believes is "completely normal".
- ... And yet you yourself don't believe in eternal suffering and also think sonship's claim about witnesses on other worlds is "slightly" weird. "Slightly"?!! sonship believes there are people on there worlds observing the eternal torture in hell - I'm mean...really??
I stand vociferously against this teaching because it is a appalling sleight on the nature of God, a barrier to the gospel, ludicrous in construct to even the simple minded, and morally bankrupt.
Unlike you I will not compromise my principles on this matter just because my buddy is a proponent of it here in this forum. You will. Other Christians lack the courage to say what they believe about eternal torture preferring to hide behind obfuscation and insults because they know the teaching is indefensible.
So who's the hypocrite?
12 Jul 15
Originally posted by lemon limeI'm not complaining about you Lemon Lime please feel free to carry on attacking me. I was pointing out to you the reason for me calling you an asshat was that you re entered this thread by immediately criticising me to another poster with the obvious intent of reigniting the animosity between us. You enjoy it, you enjoy the banter and cut and thrust. If you don't then simply ignore me and don't re enter threads and start bitching.
If you don't like getting back what you're always serving up then you know what you can do about it. Or at the very least you [b]should know.
It's not very complicated or difficult to understand...you can either keep serving up the same old crap, or you can try serving up something else.
But continually complaining about it coming back onto you ...[text shortened]... letely lost your mind, and lost (or perhaps never had) the ability to see yourself as others do?[/b]
🙂
12 Jul 15
Originally posted by lemon limeWe are in sonship's thread about hell talking about eternal suffering.
yep, that's what it is... Jack Nicholson stirring up a bit of mischief inside the funny farm asylum. I got new glasses last week, so now I can see those tiny little avatars on my tiny little lap top screen.
I was going to suggest to divegeester that he ignore me and focus more of his attention on what you've been telling him, but if I'm the one tellin ...[text shortened]... t will have the opposite effect... so I'm suggesting this in a message to you instead of to him.
Do you agree with sonship's beliefs on this matter; that there will be people being tortured for eternity after they die?
12 Jul 15
1 edit
Originally posted by SuzianneSo basically what you seem to be saying is that the teaching that Christ will be in hell torturing for eternity those billions of people who reject him, is a "minor part of Christian doctrine" (despite you not believing in it because you think it is error) and we should all ignore it because it is "not part of the here and now"?
Because it is. It doesn't exactly affect us in the here and now. If you're saved, you're saved, if you're not, then maybe you've got some work to do, IF you accept that Jesus is Lord. Banging on about this isn't going to bring people to God if they don't believe, the veil must be pierced first. I think a far more important part of Christian doctrine sho ...[text shortened]... treet" Christians really believe and how it narrates their lives. You might learn a few things.
Let's keep it in the closet like exorcism.
Furthermore, despite my feelings on the subject, I should shut up about it in this forum because there are no potential new Christians in here to be offended and put off by it, and I would be better finding a group of Christians who believe the same as me and hang out with them in order to broaden my outlook on the everyday man in the street...
An interesting perspective you have there.
Originally posted by divegeesterLOL "reigniting the animosity between us", that's rich. It was you who started up this so called "animosity between us" only after I suggested you might be a wolf in sheeps clothing, and have since gone out of your way to reignite it at threads that have nothing to do with your particular doctrinal pet peeve. You really can't expect me to buy into what you're saying here, because to quote you from another one of your recent messages it's "ludicrous in construct to even the simple minded." So what happened to you, did you forget about "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"... or was that something else Jesus said you don't agree with?
I'm not complaining about you Lemon Lime please feel free to carry on attacking me. I was pointing out to you the reason for me calling you an asshat was that you re entered this thread by immediately criticising me to another poster with the obvious intent of reigniting the animosity between us. You enjoy it, you enjoy the banter and cut and thrust. If you don't then simply ignore me and don't re enter threads and start bitching.
🙂
Okay I'll tell you what, I'll leave you be and stop bothering you. Because sooner or later you'll be taking this issue of hell up face to face with none other than the son of God himself. So good luck to you, but if you don't make it then all I can say is tough tiddly winks... you have your entire lifetime to figure this out, and if you want to squander it all away with petty quibbling that's your prerogative.
And by the way, although I did have some initial doubt about you actually being a wolf in sheeps clothing, i'm pretty much convinced that's exactly what you are. You are someone who wants to exercise control over a religion you don't particularly like 'as is', and re-form it into your own image... sounds a quite a bit like some familiar Biblical character we've all heard about, doesn't it.
12 Jul 15
1 edit
Originally posted by lemon limeIm not trying to figure it (eternal suffering) out, I'm asking YOU what YOU believe. You very vocally accuse me attacking Christianity because of my stance on the teaching of eternal suffering, but you won't categorically state whether you actually believe in it yourself which is really odd. If you don't believe it then how can you honestly say that I am attacking Christianity, and if you do believe it then why not just come out and say so?
Because sooner or later you'll be taking this issue of hell up face to face with none other than the son of God himself. So good luck to you, but if you don't make it then all I can say is tough tiddly winks... you have your entire lifetime to figure this out, and if you want to squander it all away with petty quibbling that's your prerogative.
12 Jul 15
Originally posted by divegeesterThe issue of eternal suffering isn't the only thing you've questioned, you've also questioned whether or not the Bible God is credited with inspiring can be trusted (as is) or not. Is God (in your opinion) able to accomplish this, or do you believe as the atheists do that God is only an idea invented by men?
Im not trying to figure it (eternal suffering) out, I'm asking YOU what YOU believe. You very vocally accuse me attacking Christianity because of my stance on the teaching of eternal suffering, but you won't categorically state whether you actually believe in it yourself which is really odd. If you don't believe it then how can you honestly say that I am attacking Christianity, and if you do believe it then why not just come out and say so?
You've conspicuously avoided answering several of my own questions to you about other matters concerning God and the Bible... but then here you are again, pretending to be interested enough in only one of those issues that even after the question has been answered you keep on insisting on an answer.
So what's the real story here... are you just here to have a bit of fun by being devilishly persistent in asking the same questions over and over again while ignoring the answers, or are you legitimately and/or legally insane?
12 Jul 15
3 edits
Originally posted by lemon limeI reject you claim that I said the bible can't be trusted (your post is a bit muddled in that part, but I think that's what you are claiming). This is a thread started by sonship about the teaching of eternal suffering and this is what we are discussing. I'm happy to answer any questions you have on other topics; if you would like to start a thread on those topics I will contribute.
The issue of eternal suffering isn't the only thing you've questioned, you've also questioned whether or not the Bible God is credited with inspiring can be trusted (as is) or not. Is God (in your opinion) able to accomplish this, or do you believe as the atheists do that God is only an idea invented by men?
You've conspicuously avoided answering sever ...[text shortened]... s over and over again while ignoring the answers, or are you legitimately and/or legally insane?
Regarding eternal suffering are you going to state your position or will you continue to hem and haw?
12 Jul 15
1 edit
Originally posted by lemon limeBut you have not given a coherent answer regarding your belief about the teaching of eternal suffering. A while ago you were claiming it was true, then you mysteriously changed that opinion to not knowing, then you changed again to a position that is unclear but had something to with a Grampy Bobby post about "the worm" in the book of Revelation of Jesus Christ, helping you. We still don't know what it is you believe, and you seem to be unsure yourself and yet you are happy to accuse me of attacking Christianity because I am absolutely certain of my belief. It is very odd behaviour on your part.
.. are you just here to have a bit of fun by being devilishly persistent in asking the same questions over and over again while ignoring the answers...
12 Jul 15
Originally posted by divegeestersuit yourself
But you have not given a coherent answer regarding your belief about the teaching of eternal suffering. A while ago you were claiming it was true, then you mysteriously changed that opinion to not knowing, then you changed again to a position that is unclear but had something to with a Grampy Bobby post about "the worm" in the book of Revelation of Jesu ...[text shortened]... hristianity because I am absolutely certain of my belief. It is very odd behaviour on your part.