08 Dec 11
Originally posted by FMFno, i have read the scriptural texts and I acquiesce with my conscience after weighing
So for you, there is no "self-determination" about saving lives of others by engaging in blood transfusions. The perception of whether it is "in harmony with the will of God" is a decision for the senior people within your organisation, it's not for you determine?
up the respective principles that yes, blood transfusions violate those principles. What
other people wish to do with their bodies is up to them, i can only speak personalty
about self determination as it applies to me.
08 Dec 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieBut if your "self-determination" leads you to a different perception of scriptural texts from the people who run the JW organisation, then you're out, yes?
no, i have read the scriptural texts and I acquiesce with my conscience after weighing
up the respective principles that yes, blood transfusions violate those principles. What
other people wish to do with their bodies is up to them, i can only speak personalty
about self determination as it applies to me.
08 Dec 11
Originally posted by FMFnot necessarily, id have to augment my different self determination through some kind
But if your "self-determination" leads you to a different perception of scriptural texts from the people who run the JW organisation, then you're out, yes?
of action, otherwise id simply go around thinking differently but acting the same.
08 Dec 11
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThere is no further "weighing up [of] the respective principles" or any permissible further application of "conscience" to those principles once you have joined the organisation - if you want to avoid being removed?
no, i have read the scriptural texts and I acquiesce with my conscience after weighing
up the respective principles ...
08 Dec 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieNot necessarily? So you are saying it is permissible for your "self-determination" to lead you to a different perception of scriptural texts from the people who run the JW organisation?
not necessarily, id have to augment my different self determination through some kind
of action, otherwise id simply go around thinking differently but acting the same.
08 Dec 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI guess the 'acting differently' group leads to 30,000 annual excommunications. Thats a whopping figure for a small organisation that claims they are so unified.
not necessarily, id have to augment my different self determination through some kind
of action, otherwise id simply go around thinking differently but acting the same.
08 Dec 11
Originally posted by FMFLOL, dont be silly, of course there is, what kind of car i drive is a matter of conscience,
There is no further "weighing up [of] the respective principles" or any permissable application of "conscience" once you have joined the organisation - if you want to avoid being removed?
whether i wear jewellery or a suit with a Nehru collar, whether i eat meat, what kind of
music I listen to, what kind of books i read, so many things involve the conscience.
08 Dec 11
2 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999not really the majority are removed for fornication and many return. The standards
I guess the 'acting differently' group leads to 30,000 annual excommunications. Thats a whopping figure for a small organisation that claims they are so unified.
are quite high FMF and one does not take the decision to became a witness without
study, typically a year or two and in full recognition of the standards that one is
expected to keep. I repeat, you are not removed for the crime bur for being
unrepentant.
08 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWell I am clearly not talking about the "self-determination" or "conscience" relating to the kind of car you drive, whether you wear jewellery or a suit with a Nehru collar, or whether you eat meat, or what kind of music you listen to, or what kind of books you read. Did you really think this is what I was referring to?
LOL, dont be silly, of course there is, what kind of car i drive is a matter of conscience,
whether i wear jewellery or a suit with a Nehru collar, whether i eat meat, what kind of
music I listen to, what kind of books i read, so many things involve the conscience.
I am talking about the "self-determination" that could lead you to a different perception of scriptural texts - because you say the "weighing up" continues after you join the organisation - but it would obviously not be a genuine process of "weighing up" if it could not bring about change or adaptation.
08 Dec 11
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo the WT Org is judge jury and executioner .. clearly wrong.
not really the majority are removed for fornication and many return. The standards
are quite high FMF and one does not take the decision to became a witness without
study, typically a year or two and in full recognition of the standards that one is
expected to keep. I repeat, you are not removed for the crime bur for being
unrepentant.
One more notch on the belt of false teachings.
08 Dec 11
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFmostly our fundamental doctrines have been established, they get reformed from time
Well I am clearly not talking about the "self-determination" or "conscience" relating to the kind of car you drive, whether you wear jewellery or a suit with a Nehru collar, or whether you eat meat, or what kind of music you listen to, or what kind of books you read. Did you think this what I was referring to?
I am talking about the "self-determination" that e a genuine process of "weighing up" if it could not bring about change or adaptation.
to time if knew understanding upon a text comes to light, but the basics are there. yes
of course it continues, but its in the application, for example, the sanctity of life
determines, what kind of job you'll do, whether you can carry a weapon, what kind of
sports you can participate in, etc etc, all these things need to be weighed in the
balance by our perceptive powers.