A life saved from the madness

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Are you aware of Vivia Perpetua? She was a young women put to death in the amphitheaters of the Romans. She became a Christian through her servant preaching to her. As was common in those days she was brought before the city magistrate profession of Christianity being a capital crime and offered the opportunity to offer up incense to an effigy of ...[text shortened]... nd I answered, 'Yes, I am.'

http://secretplaceseries.com/Support/Testimonies/V_Perpetua1.html

Interesting story. She was an adult and she made her own choice about her life.
So was the JW in the nazi camp, they made their own choice.

Here we don't talk about a girl with her own choice. Did anyone ask her what she wanted? The parents didn't. The doctor saved her life. Everything ended happily.

Life is more precious than religion.

If the girl was adult and therefore could make her own choice and chosed to decline the transfusion even if it would lead to her death, then it was her own choice, noone elses choice. Then we should respect her for that desition. (?)

But the girl wasn't adult, and her parents sent her to her death by declining her the transfusion according to the parents religion. They should be treated as murderers. The doctor however saved her with his medical skills.

Religion kills. Medicin saves. (According to the article in the OP)

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Interesting story. She was an adult and she made her own choice about her life.
So was the JW in the nazi camp, they made their own choice.

Here we don't talk about a girl with her own choice. Did anyone ask her what she wanted? The parents didn't. The doctor saved her life. Everything ended happily.

Life is more precious than religion.

If the ...[text shortened]... with his medical skills.

Religion kills. Medicin saves. (According to the article in the OP)

I was not making any reference to children and medical procedures, i was referring specifically to your claim that life is more precious or important than religion and provided specific references which demonstrate that for some people, this is not the case. Medicine is limited to what can be achieved at present, it offers no hope for those with a terminal illness.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Sorry I cannot speak on behalf of someone who is Jewish, it has no real relevance to me.

Sigh.

Then substitute Jehovah's Witness in wherever I said Jewish.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I was not making any reference to children and medical procedures, i was referring specifically to your claim that life is more precious or important than religion.

And life *is* more important than religion.

Your stories (yet interesting) doesn't change that.

The OP reference is about children and medical procedures. The parents wanted to jeopardize their daughters life, but the doctor saved her. Well done!

Originally posted by googlefudge
Sigh.

Then substitute Jehovah's Witness in wherever I said Jewish.

Some may choose to tell the truth out of a sense of conviction that even if they are killed, God will resurrect them at some point in the future, thus even if they are killed, death holds no terror for them, its simply a transient sleep like state from which they will awaken. Perhaps the gunman will kill them anyway, after all, are we to expect some kind of moral conviction from a gunman intent on murder?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
And life *is* more important than religion.

Your stories (yet interesting) doesn't change that.

The OP reference is about children and medical procedures. The parents wanted to jeopardize their daughters life, but the doctor saved her. Well done!

It does for some people Fabian, some people whose convictions are greater than life itself.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Some may choose to tell the truth out of a sense of conviction that even if they are killed, God will resurrect them at some point in the future, thus even if they are killed, death holds no terror for them, its simply a transient sleep like state from which they will awaken. Perhaps the gunman will kill them anyway, after all, are we to expect some kind of moral conviction from a gunman intent on murder?

Nope. That does not constitute a good reason.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It does for some people Fabian, some people whose convictions are greater than life itself.

Some people can decide for themselves. The girl in the OP's ref couldn't. The doctor saved her.

Religion kills. Medicine saves.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Some may choose to tell the truth out of a sense of conviction that even if they are killed, God will resurrect them at some point in the future, this even if they are killed, death holds no terror for them, its simply a transient sleep like state.

It sounds here like you're saying it didn't really make much difference whether they died or not. If so, I wonder what you thought was so special about the story.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Nope. That does not constitute a good reason.

It not only constitutes a reason, it constitutes a perfectly valid and rational reason, simply because you don't like it or accept it does not make it unreasonable or invalid.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Some people can decide for themselves. The girl in the OP's ref couldn't. The doctor saved her.

Religion kills. Medicine saves.

are you willing to accept that for some people their convictions are of greater importance than life itself as has been demonstrated with reference?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
are you willing to accept that for some people their convictions are of greater importance than life itself as has been demonstrated with reference?

Ask the girl if she is happy to be alive. I think we know her answer.
Then we ask her parents if they are happy she is alive. I think we know their answer as well.

And you give me another opportunity to repeat...:
Religion kills, medicine saves. (In this very case.)

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It not only constitutes a reason, it constitutes a perfectly valid and rational reason, simply because you don't like it or accept it does not make it unreasonable or invalid.

So tell me, if someone were to force you, under the threat of death, to write something on a piece of paper to the effect of "I relinquish my belief in Jesus", would it mean that you had actually relinquished your belief in Jesus?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Ask the girl if she is happy to be alive. I think we know her answer.
Then we ask her parents if they are happy she is alive. I think we know their answer as well.

And you give me another opportunity to repeat...:
Religion kills, medicine saves. (In this very case.)

you have failed to answer the question

Originally posted by FMF
So tell me, if someone were to force you, under the threat of death, to write something on a piece of paper to the effect of "I relinquish my belief in Jesus", would it mean that you had actually relinquished your belief in Jesus?

we could ask Vivia Perpetua the same question