03 Jan 14
Originally posted by sonhouseMethinks ToO’s opinion is that Shariah Law is not a core religious Muslim doctrine but rather a political/ ethical code conducted by hardcore Muslim believers who are quite confident that our only business is to do Allah's will the way they perceive it according to their scripture and teaching (Quran and Hadiths), whilst he acknowledges that there are also Muslims who believe in looking at things rationally. Due to the latter, since our GB does not take this split into his account, I have the impression he considers GB’s thesis a product of bigotry.
Nice deflection. You still haven't provided us with what your problem was with GB's post nor have you defined your own position on Sharia law.
Now as regards Shariah, to me it ’s extremely violent and no law at all and surely existent; and as long as the Muslim community tolerate its practice, methinks Islam will be doomed to be in the same lot with the most dangerous and idiotic religions, forever in separation from the magical Rumi’s swirling
😵
03 Jan 14
2 edits
Originally posted by black beetleOriginally posted by black beetle
Methinks ToO’s opinion is that Shariah Law is not a core religious Muslim doctrine but rather a political/ ethical code conducted by hardcore Muslim believers who are quite confident that our only business is to do Allah's will the way they perceive it according to their scripture and teaching (Quran and Hadiths), whilst he acknowledges that there are a ...[text shortened]... most dangerous and idiotic religions, forever in separation from the magical Rumi’s swirling
😵
"Methinks ToO’s opinion is that Shariah Law is not a core religious Muslim doctrine but rather a political/ ethical code conducted by hardcore Muslim believers who are quite confident that our only business is to do Allah's will the way they perceive it according to their scripture and teaching (Quran and Hadiths), whilst he acknowledges that there are also Muslims who believe in looking at things rationally. Due to the latter, since our GB does not take this split into his account, I have the impression he considers GB’s thesis a product of bigotry.
Now as regards Shariah, to me it ’s extremely violent and no law at all and surely existent; and as long as the Muslim community tolerate its practice, methinks Islam will be doomed to be in the same lot with the most dangerous and idiotic religions, forever in separation from the magical Rumi’s swirling"
> "Due to the latter, since our GB does not take this split into his account..." My friend bb, thanks once again for your kind words and constructive tone. Yes, I'm aware of split infinitives and splitting wood behind mountain cabins and making the split between "... hardcore Muslim believers who are quite confident that our only business is to do Allah's will" and those "Muslims who believe in looking at things rationally." Fact remains that "With this topic, I'm here to learn." Best to you and your lovely bride in 2014. Here are a few comments which attest to the thread's reason for being since its humble birth.
Originally posted by wolfgang59
"Show us a law change in the UK, Canada or US that is based on Sharia Law.
OR
Retract these lies."
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Sharia Law is the law of Islam. Sharia [also spelled 'Shariah'] is cast from the Quran, the actions and words of Muhammad, and the collective reasoning and deductions of Muslim imams. As a legal system, Islam's Sharia law covers a wide range of subjects. The stipulations of the Sharia law, however, are unlike any other legal system in the world. According to the Sharia law:
• Theft is punishable by amputation of the right hand (above).
• Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Muhammad is a prophet is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Allah, the moon god of Islam is punishable by death.
• A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death."
Do you believe this summary is an accurate representation of the Sharia Law? As to the western hemisphere demographics of the belief, I'd welcome your help in clarifying the profile. As stated in the original post, the thread's intended as a point of reference... to stimulate insightful conversation. With this topic, I'm here to learn. No agenda. Thanks.
Originally posted by Proper Knob
"So you came to a chess website forum frequented entirely by non Muslims for a perspective on Sharia Law?"
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Sure. During the past six years knowledgeable people have always contributed to the many topics introduced to this forum."
Originally posted by Great King Rat
"Those Sharia laws are indeed pretty awful, GB. What should we do with this knowledge, you think?"
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Let's do what we always do on this online public forum: individually objectively contribute to a constructive conversation."
03 Jan 14
Originally posted by black beetleAre you suggesting that ToO is invoking the "no true Scotsman" argument?
Methinks ToO’s opinion is that Shariah Law is not a core religious Muslim doctrine but rather a political/ ethical code conducted by hardcore Muslim believers who are quite confident that our only business is to do Allah's will the way they perceive it according to their scripture and teaching (Quran and Hadiths), whilst he acknowledges that there are a ...[text shortened]... most dangerous and idiotic religions, forever in separation from the magical Rumi’s swirling
😵
Originally posted by black beetleI have to laugh at you people. Talking in circles, invoking the 'no true Scotman' excuse. Basically nobody seems to know anything, except how to deflect and deceive.
I am suggesting that ToO could clearly tolerate not Shariah and at the same time clarify that this so called "law" is not a core religious Muslim doctrine😵
Has anyone here actually read the Koran? No? Then read it before talking. You for example Black Beetle, do you know that the word 'Shariah' means 'the core teaching of Islam'? All of the Sharia law are taken from the Koran and the Hadiths and Sharia represents the core doctrines of Islam.
Yes, I have read much of the Koran and most of what was posted in the opening post is there in the Koran in plain simple language.
03 Jan 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
Sharia Law
"Sharia Law is the law of Islam. Sharia [also spelled 'Shariah'] is cast from the Quran, the actions and words of Muhammad, and the collective reasoning and deductions of Muslim imams. As a legal system, Islam's Sharia law covers a wide range of subjects. The stipulations of the Sharia law, however, are unlike any other legal system in the world. According to the Sharia law:
• Theft is punishable by amputation of the right hand (above).
• Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Muhammad is a prophet is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Allah, the moon god of Islam is punishable by death.
• A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death.
• A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.
• Girls' clitoris should be cut (per Muhammad's words in Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251).
• A woman can have 1 husband, but a man can have up to 4 wives; Muhammad can have more.
• A man can unilaterally divorce his wife but a woman needs her husband's consent to divorce.
• A man can beat his wife for insubordination.
• Testimonies of four male witnesses are required to prove rape against a woman.
• A woman who has been raped cannot testify in court against her rapist(s).
• A woman's testimony in court, allowed only in property cases, carries half the weight of a man's.
• A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits.
• A woman cannot drive a car, as it leads to fitnah (upheaval).
• A woman cannot speak alone to a man who is not her husband or relative.
• Meat to be eaten must come from animals that have been sacrificed to Allah - i.e., be Halal.
• Muslims should engage in Taqiyya and lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam.
• The list goes on. Sharia is the national law of Saudi Arabia but has been seeping into Europe, UK, Canada and America as Islam expands, led by the Muslim Brotherhood movement." http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/sharia-law.html
Note: These laws are "cast from the Quran, the actions and words of Muhammad", which has become the faith belief system and salvation of the souls of many loyal followers around the globe; provided here simply as a point of reference.
04 Jan 14
Originally posted by black beetleDoes your expertise on ToO's thinking extend to explaining why he accused Grampy Bobby of being a bigot after his opening post?
I am suggesting that ToO could clearly tolerate not Shariah and at the same time clarify that this so called "law" is not a core religious Muslim doctrine😵
04 Jan 14
Originally posted by Rajk999To claim that Shariah is a strictly codified uniform set of laws (well it isn't) is like claiming that the Guantanamo practices are accepted by the USA law😵
I have to laugh at you people. Talking in circles, invoking the 'no true Scotman' excuse. Basically nobody seems to know anything, except how to deflect and deceive.
Has anyone here actually read the Koran? No? Then read it before talking. You for example Black Beetle, do you know that the word 'Shariah' means 'the core teaching of Islam'? All of the Sh ...[text shortened]... and most of what was posted in the opening post is there in the Koran in plain simple language.
04 Jan 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyEdit: “Note: These laws are "cast from the Quran, the actions and words of Muhammad", which has become the faith belief system and salvation of the souls of many loyal followers around the globe; provided here simply as a point of reference.”
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby (OP)
[b]Sharia Law
"Sharia Law is the law of Islam. Sharia [also spelled 'Shariah'] is cast from the Quran, the actions and words of Muhammad, and the collective reasoning and deductions of Muslim imams. As a legal system, Islam's Sharia law covers a wide range of subjects. The stipulations of the Sharia ...[text shortened]... he souls of many loyal followers around the globe; provided here simply as a point of reference.[/b]
Shariah Law is interpreted differently by different communities of Muslims –some of them are extreme and most are not, the same way some Christians are extreme and most are not. The same could be done with the Bible
😵
04 Jan 14
Originally posted by divegeesterI 'm not an expert on ToO's thinking; with my first post on page 8 of this thread I explained the way I understood his opinion as regards the OP😵
Does your expertise on ToO's thinking extend to explaining why he accused Grampy Bobby of being a bigot after his opening post?
04 Jan 14
Originally posted by black beetleWell said.
Edit: “Note: These laws are "cast from the Quran, the actions and words of Muhammad", which has become the faith belief system and salvation of the souls of many loyal followers around the globe; provided here simply as a point of reference.”
Shariah Law is interpreted differently by different communities of Muslims –some of them are extreme and most ...[text shortened]... same way some Christians are extreme and most are not. The same could be done with the Bible
😵
04 Jan 14
Originally posted by divegeesterMethinks it is not a fair accusation. "Shariah" the way it is "performed" as a "law" by specific Islamists in Nigeria, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, cannot be tolerated, and in my opinion the ones who are practicing it are to me merely fondamentalist criminals. Therefore, due to the fact that the Muslims themselves are still unable to convince the global community that they really do not tolerate Shariah as we see it in those two countries I mentioned, we cannot accuse anyone for bigotry just because he falsely thinks that this "Shariah" is a core Muslim teaching; instead, we could firstly try to inform and educate him, and then debate😵
Do you feel that calling GB a bigot for his opening post was a fair accusation, given the content of it?
04 Jan 14
Originally posted by black beetleAgreed, although I would go further and say that whether or not the laws stated are core to Islamic faith or not, they are not immune from examination and that examination should not illicit accusations of bigotry irrespective of the application of the "no true Scotsman" argument which is being subtly exercised in this thread.
Methinks it is not a fair accusation. "Shariah" the way it is "performed" as a "law" by specific Islamists in Nigeria, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere, cannot be tolerated, and in my opinion the ones who are practicing it are to me merely fondamentalist criminals. Therefore, due to the fact that the Muslims themselves are still unable to convince the global ...[text shortened]... core Muslim teaching; instead, we could firstly try to inform and educate him, and then debate😵
The Islamic faith is the propagator of these laws and the subsequent contemporary atrocities and therefore either it is subject to GB's examination holistically or it may claim exclusion by using the "no true Scotsman" argument.
05 Jan 14
Originally posted by divegeesterWe agree in full😵
Agreed, although I would go further and say that whether or not the laws stated are core to Islamic faith or not, they are not immune from examination and that examination should not illicit accusations of bigotry irrespective of the application of the "no true Scotsman" argument which is being subtly exercised in this thread.
The Islamic faith is th ...[text shortened]... B's examination holistically or it may claim exclusion by using the "no true Scotsman" argument.