Sharia Law

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Okay. Happy reading.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sources_of_sharia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiqh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topics_of_sharia_law

GB is certainly getting both barrels on this one, vitriol out of one and subterfuge from the other.

If one didn't know better, one would imagine how the dissenting voices hold a position that sharia law simply isn't an issue which merits discussion, as it relates to its proliferation into traditionally non-Muslim countries.

In my reading of the few pages thus far, it sounds like a few folks think the phenomena simply doesn't exist. Further, it also appears their perspective on the topic is a result of their rejection of the sources cited.

I only use Google when I have to, but here are the top five DuckDuckGo results (minus one duplicate site) from simply typing "sharia law in us" as follows:

From Windsor, CO, chapter of ACT! For America:
https://windsorcoactforamerica.wordpress.com/2013/12/27/raising-a-jihadi-generation/

From the Center for Security Policy (an article from two years ago):
http://shariahinamericancourts.com/

From the oft-quoted Huffington Post:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/29/sharia-law-usa-states-ban_n_3660813.html

From UPI:
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2013/05/19/Islamic-law-in-US-courts/UPI-64481368948600/

And from The Nation:
http://www.thenation.com/article/168378/true-story-sharia-american-courts

Not a single one of them is satirical.
Neither do any of them deny the phenomena of precisely the intent of OP's thread.
ACT! For America receives its fair share of criticism from left-leaning persuasions, here's one little snippet from this chapter's 'agenda' with respect to Muslims:
"Most Muslims in our community would consider themselves moderate and are quite possibly unaware of the behind the scenes orchestrations being woven into the fabric of American institutions, culture and worldview which are laying the groundwork for the subjugation of this nation to Islam. My point is, do not hate Muslims!"

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
GB is certainly getting both barrels on this one, vitriol out of one and subterfuge from the other.

If one didn't know better, one would imagine how the dissenting voices hold a position that sharia law simply isn't an issue which merits discussion, as it relates to its proliferation into traditionally non-Muslim countries.

In my reading of the few ...[text shortened]... e groundwork for the subjugation of this nation to Islam. My point is, do not hate Muslims!"[/i]

Consider my links a 'point of reference' like GB's.

Originally posted by rwingett
'Law', by definition, is a public phenomenon. What happens behind closed doors is a 'custom'.

We both know that isn't true. What might not be 'law' often gets overlooked when it comes to minority religions within a society.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
No idea how anyone could reasonably draw those conclusions based on my posts. Try reading my first two posts on page one and the articles at the links provided.

So are you saying the points raised by GB are false, that no one does that any more? Did you by any chance hear about the recent case of a woman beheaded in NEW JERSEY by a muslim calling it an honor killing?

This is ok with you?

I know this for a fact:

I lived in Jerusalem for 4 years and we were friends with a lot of Palestinians and we talked to the owners of an orphanage in Bethlehem run by Muslims.

One of the edicts of Islam is an orphan has no property rights, that is to say an orphan who is adopted by a family has no rights as an heir and are therefore only partially in that family.

Also, at that same orphanage, one woman who worked there had to be hidden because she was accused of adultery and the husband's brothers and cousins came to that orphanage several times looking for her.

As it turned out later, the charges were false but they were out to kill her just on the ACCUSATION.

There is one thing in Islam: WOMEN ARE ON A LOWER PLANE THAN MEN, cast in stone. You need go no further than to look at the situation in Saudi Arabia where women cannot even drive a car.

This is 100% driven by Shiria law.

Obviously that won't happen in the US unless a man bullies his wife into not taking the test.

Christianity has the exact same problem but has taken 1000 years for women to have any kind of place in their churches.

A woman will NEVER be Pope for instance.

I think BOTH religions stink to high heaven for that reason.

A god (whom we would agree to be so far above humanity on all levels) would NEVER say a woman is worth 35 shekels and a man 50 and similar sayings in Islam.

There is no getting around that, women are second class citizens in both Christianity and Islam.

That condemns both religions as man made and nothing more.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So are you saying the points raised by GB are false, that no one does that any more? Did you by any chance hear about the recent case of a woman beheaded in NEW JERSEY by a muslim calling it an honor killing?

This is ok with you?

I know this for a fact:

I lived in Jerusalem for 4 years and we were friends with a lot of Palestinians and we talked ...[text shortened]... s in both Christianity and Islam.

That condemns both religions as man made and nothing more.

This is 100% driven by Shiria law.
I see what you did there...

A god (whom we would agree to be so far above humanity on all levels) would NEVER say a woman is worth 35 shekels and a man 50 and similar sayings in Islam.
Context is everything.
The context surrounding the pronouncement of value had several factors.
One, these were extraordinary pledges to God: not anything proscribed, but out of the enlarged heart of the giver.
Two, value was determined based upon societal economy.

In today's society, we are told how woman receive a portion of salary received by man. In a society which has nearly eliminated the physical differences between men and women, how is it that we still esteem a healthy, young male as more capable than a woman at producing wealth?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]This is 100% driven by Shiria law.
I see what you did there...

A god (whom we would agree to be so far above humanity on all levels) would NEVER say a woman is worth 35 shekels and a man 50 and similar sayings in Islam.
Context is everything.
The context surrounding the pronouncement of value had several factors.
One, these were extra ...[text shortened]... it that we still esteem a healthy, young male as more capable than a woman at producing wealth?[/b]

My parents can tell you about Sharia law, they both lived and worked in Saudi for several years, along with my brother. I was working in Thailand at the time but I can tell you my mom was afraid to go outside even being a westerner without the head scarf. So she seldom left the compound.

I can tell you, Thailand is a paradise compared to ANY muslim country. Thailand is mostly Buddhist.

I also worked for a couple of years in the Bahama's, Andros Island, there is a British submarine base there called AUTEC, Atlantic Underwater Test Center, was an awesome job and an awesome island.

Culturally Jerusalem was best for us anyway, since we are folk musicians and there are so many Jews there into American and UK folk music. We had instant friends on both sides the tweed there. Played at folk festivals from Jacob's Ladder in the north to kibbutz Yot Vata in the south and parts in between. One of our kids graduated from HS there, the Anglican International school in Jerusalem. A school a few steps above normal!

It's funny, when our son Kevin did his college entrance exams, he aced the English section.

The testers were highly suspicious and called him in a session about it.

"Where did you go to school? We have NEVER had that high a score on the ENGLISH part of the test, highly unusual' kind of thing.

He just said, the Anglican International School in Jerusalem and they were instantly in love🙂

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Excellent Counterpoint: Pianoman1, what is your level of awareness of the social customs of ancient Egypt and Canaan?

(15-11) "Leviticus 18. Purity in All Sexual Relationships: “The prohibition of incest and similar sensual abominations is introduced with a general warning as to the licentious customs of the Egyptians and Canaanites, and an exhortation to walk in the judgments and ordinances of Jehovah [Leviticus 18:2–5], and is brought to a close with a threatening allusion to the consequences of all such defilements [vv. 24–30].” (Keil and Delitzsch, Commentary, 1:2:411–12.)

The phrase “to uncover their nakedness” (v. 6; see also vv. 7–19) was a Hebrew euphemism for sexual intercourse, and thus all kinds of incestuous relationships were forbidden, including “(1) with a mother, (2) with a step-mother, (3) with a sister or half-sister, (4) with a granddaughter, the daughter of either son or daughter, (5) with the daughter of a step-mother, (6) with an aunt, the sister of either father or mother, (7) with the wife of an uncle on the father’s side, (8) with a daughter-in-law, (9) with a sister-in-law, or brother’s wife, (10) with a woman and her daughter, or a woman and her granddaughter, and (11) with two sisters at the same time” (Keil and Delitzsch, Commentary, 1:2:412).

Other abominations involving sexual perversions such as homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22) and bestiality (Leviticus 18:23) were forbidden with equal severity. These very abominations of the Canaanites caused them to be cast out of the promised land Israel was about to inherit (see Leviticus 18:24–25; 1 Nephi 17:32–35)."

http://www.lds.org/manual/old-testament-student-manual-genesis-2-samuel/leviticus-11-18-a-law-of-performances-and-ordinances-part-2-the-clean-and-the-unclean?lang=eng

Note: The Mosaic Law Codex I: The Freedom Code [Decalogue or Ten Commandments] defines principles of human freedom (this short list of prohibitions doesn't cover the entire doctrine of harmatiology); Codex II: The Spiritual Code including a complete, shadow presentation of Christ and His saving work (Christology and soteriology); Codex III: An Establishment Code (civil statutes, precautions, practical instructions) for the protection and perpetuation of God's chosen Nation of Israel. “Purity in All Sexual Relationships: The prohibition of incest and similar sensual abominations is introduced with a general warning as to the licentious customs of the Egyptians and Canaanites." Lev.18:2–5 Jesus Christ fulfilled the Mosaic Law.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
(15-11) "Leviticus 18. Purity in All ..

If this thread is about Sharia Law why quote the bible??????????????

Originally posted by wolfgang59
If this thread is about Sharia Law why quote the bible??????????????

Because ALL those texts come 100% from mankind, not a god.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
If this thread is about Sharia Law why quote the bible??????????????

Originally posted by wolfgang59
If this thread is about Sharia Law why quote the bible??????????????

Fair question:

"Horrendous as Sharia law is, let us not forget what the Bible also has to offer that is repugnant... "

As a courtesy to Pianoman1 who made referenced to it.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Because ALL those texts come 100% from mankind, not a god.

Originally posted by sonhouse
Because ALL those texts come 100% from mankind, not a god.

RHP/Spirituality Forum Reference Section (Page 2)

2. The Word of God

2.1. "The Word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and the marrow, and is a critic of thoughts and intents of the heart." (Hebrews 4:12)

2.2. "All Scripture is God-breathed, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God might be mature, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

All but one.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by sonhouse
[b]Because ALL those texts come 100% from mankind, not a god.

RHP/Spirituality Forum Reference Section (Page 2)

2. The Word of God

2.1. "The Word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and the marro ...[text shortened]... might be mature, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

All but one.[/b]

Circular argument failure detected.

The bible is gods word because the bible says it's gods word....

All holy books say they are the word of their relevant deity.

Why should we treat the bible any differently from any other holy book?

Originally posted by googlefudge
Circular argument failure detected.

The bible is gods word because the bible says it's gods word....

All holy books say they are the word of their relevant deity.

Why should we treat the bible any differently from any other holy book?

Why should we treat the bible any differently from any other holy book?
Two-part response:
The Jew and history.

Originally posted by sonhouse
My parents can tell you about Sharia law, they both lived and worked in Saudi for several years, along with my brother. I was working in Thailand at the time but I can tell you my mom was afraid to go outside even being a westerner without the head scarf. So she seldom left the compound.

I can tell you, Thailand is a paradise compared to ANY muslim coun ...[text shortened]...
He just said, the Anglican International School in Jerusalem and they were instantly in love🙂

I've been to Saudi and I was glad to get out of the place; despite the rampant consumerism the Islamic religious regime and the cultural oppression is stifling not to mention unnerving. Public executions et al.

Originally posted by sonhouse
So are you saying the points raised by GB are false, that no one does that any more? Did you by any chance hear about the recent case of a woman beheaded in NEW JERSEY by a muslim calling it an honor killing?

This is ok with you?

I know this for a fact:

I lived in Jerusalem for 4 years and we were friends with a lot of Palestinians and we talked ...[text shortened]... s in both Christianity and Islam.

That condemns both religions as man made and nothing more.

Didn't (or don't) you work in or around science/technology? Didn't part of your work entail reasonably drawing conclusions based on facts?

Following is your first response to me:
"So I gather you heartily approve of Sharia law and the points raised by GB are never carried out in the real world."

I responded as follows:
"No idea how anyone could reasonably draw those conclusions based on my posts. Try reading my first two posts on page one and the articles at the links provided."

Quite frankly, given your background, I expected that you would have checked the facts (my posts) and realized that you don't have the facts to support your conclusions.

Instead you responded with the following which also isn't supported by the facts (my posts):
"So are you saying the points raised by GB are false, that no one does that any more?"

If you disagree, please feel free to reference any and all of my posts to demonstrate how your conclusions are warranted. I wasn't surprised at the responses of divegeester and josephw and ultimately gave up on the idea of having a rational discussion with either of them. That said, I expected better of you given your background. But then, maybe I was thinking of someone else.