18 Feb 15
Originally posted by FMFIf a child abuser hides his child abuse under fear of immediate betrayal and prosecution, will he be more or less likely to stop his abuse of children? You have not said.
The objective surely is to stop adults having sex with children. I don't see how the promise of institutional protection and cover up is going to do this. If the sex abusers are not prosecuted and removed from the vicinity of children that they might want to have sex with, I don't think the safety that abusers feel when they confess is going to necessarily furth ...[text shortened]... aving sex with children and to prosecute and punish it as one of the very worst kinds of crimes.
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhen you said "every single question that has been asked of you FMF, you have not answered a single one" it wasn't true. This will be why you follow up my answer pointing this out with a silly ad hominem.
we are in the process of discussion FMF, please stop your tantrums and be a good boy otherwise you will be made to stand under the nasty nelly cloud!
18 Feb 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieDo you have any facts or data to suggest that this is the case or are you speculating?
If a child abuser hides his child abuse under fear of immediate betrayal and prosecution, will he be more or less likely to stop his abuse of children? You have not said.
18 Feb 15
Originally posted by FMFIt depends what the organisation is, doesn't it. If he confesses to a policeman then yes he probably will be punished after investigation. If he confesses to a minister of religion who invokes the legally established right of penitent confidentiality and there is no civic law which acts a moral imperative forcing the minister of religion to reveal his iniquity then he will probably be counselled to seek help from professional persons. Under such circumstances a minister of religion is under no moral imperative to reveal the confession nor any legal imperative to report the matter. This goes for all other serious sins, not only child abuse.
Does the child abuser get punished under the law of the land for his crimes if he confesses to his organisation?
Originally posted by FMFI don't know is an answer of some descritipn FMF never the less your attitude here deserves to be mocked, you appear to be a tantrum throwing child, who if he doesn't get his own way will skweem and skweem and skweem! Its been rather pleasant chewing the fat with googlefudge but i find your incessant whining and egotism rather tiring.
When you said "every single question that has been asked of you FMF, you have not answered a single one" it wasn't true. This will be why you follow up my answer with a silly ad hominem.
18 Feb 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThis brings us back to the central question, at least as I see it: what impact do you think secrecy and cover up can have on dealing with child abuse and what impact you think it can have on whether one knows the true extent of the problem or not.
It depends what the organisation is, doesn't it. If he confesses to a policeman then yes he probably will be punished after investigation. If he confesses to a minister of religion who invokes the legally established right of penitent confidentiality and there is no civic law which acts a moral imperative forcing the minister of religion to reveal h ...[text shortened]... al imperative to report the matter. This goes for all other serious sins, not only child abuse.
18 Feb 15
Originally posted by FMFI don't know.
This brings us back to the central question, at least as I see it: what impact do you think secrecy and cover up can have on dealing with child abuse and what impact you think it can have on whether one knows the true extent of the problem or not.
18 Feb 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWhat are you on about?
I don't know is an answer of some descritipn FMF never the less your attitude here deserves to be mocked, you appear to be a tantrum throwing child, who id he doesn't get his own way will skweem and skweem and skweem! Its been rather pleasant chewing the fat with googlefudge but i find your incessant whining and egotism rather tiring.
How many child sex abusers does the promise of cover up draw out and how many does it have no effect on?
How many of those who confess continue sexually abusing children once they realize they have protected themselves by bringing "penitent confidentiality" into play?
18 Feb 15
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFhow many? let me see, now where did i place that information. 🙄
What are you on about?
How many child sex abusers does the promise of cover up draw out and how many does it have no effect on?
How many of those who confess continue sexually abusing children once they realize they have protected themselves by bringing "penitent confidentiality" into play?
18 Feb 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobieSo the impact of cover up and secrecy on the extent of child abuse is something you do not know about so you will therefore be unable to claim whether or not your organisation is getting it right and whether the ultimate objective of dealing with child sex abuse within the organisation is being strived for effectively.
I don't know.
18 Feb 15
Originally posted by FMFI don't know
So the impact of cover up and secrecy on the extent of child abuse is something you do not know about so you will therefore be unable to claim whether or not your organisation is getting it right and whether the ultimate objective of dealing with child sex abuse within the organisation is being strived for effectively.
18 Feb 15
Originally posted by robbie carrobie1. Having sex with children is a betrayal of trust too. There is hardly a more heinous betrayal of trust. I don't think it can be trumped by some sort of religion-based trust between adults ~ which then results in the cover up of crimes of one of those two adults ~ the one having sex with a child.
1. Is it moral to betray a trust
2. Is a child abuser more or less likely to make a confession if they know that they will be betrayed.
2. A child abuser might make a confession if they knew that making the confession would cause a huge international organisation to employ its resources to keep the abuse secret. They might well make a confession in order to protect themselves from criminal prosecution and enlist the organisation's help with the cover up. Law enforcement, being kept out of the loop, would be unable to prevent any continuation of the sexual abuse of children, and the organisation's supposed obligation to cover up the crime would still be in force.
18 Feb 15
2 edits
Originally posted by FMF1. no one has stated that child abuse is not a betrayal of trust, you assertion of course does nothing to answer the question. The actual question was, Is it moral to betray a trust when you expect absolute confidence from someone.
1. Having sex with children is a betrayal of trust too. There is hardly a more heinous betrayal of trust. I don't think it can be trumped by some sort of religion-based trust between adults ~ which then results in the cover up of crimes of one of those two adults ~ the one having sex with a child.
2. A child abuser might make a confession if they knew that ma ...[text shortened]... ldren, and the organisation's supposed obligation to cover up the crime would still be in force.
2, This of course also does not answer the question of whether someone is more or less likely to make a confession of guilt if they know that they will be instantly betrayed. The actual question was 'Is a child abuser more or less likely to make a confession if they know that that trust will be instantly betrayed.'
but thanks anyway Nasty Nelly.