16 Dec 14
Originally posted by galveston75When the JW elders tried to turn Beauroberts' wife against him and get her to leave him ~ and take away his children too ~ what Biblical verses do you suppose they cited?
So going back to the original question about being disfellowshipped and basically if it is a thing to do no matter what the reason and should it be done...yes it is a bible based action that has to be done to protect the congregation from ones who in the view of the elders and thru serious prayer to Jehovah has to be put into place.
16 Dec 14
Originally posted by galveston75What about Beauroberts' children? Do you think it's for their "protection" that the JW elders put pressure on their mother to take them away from their dad?
This is all done with the hope that after that person has some time pass and hopefully will miss being a part of the congregation and the love that is shown by all their brothers, they will have a change of heart by praying to Jehovah during that time for guidance to have a clearer understanding of Jehovahs commands which are only there for our protection.
17 Dec 14
Originally posted by FMFI don't give much credence to hearsay.
You seem to have some difficulty coping with disagreement.
Many times people just like to talk about something that will get them attention.
The subject of disfellowshipping has been well presented from the Bible.
Each individual can choose for themselves what they believe.
for more information about the Bible or God's Kingdom go to jw.org
17 Dec 14
Originally posted by roigamThis may be true in some or even many cases, and it may be true with regards to the way you are talking here on this thread, but the Bible analysis that makes your interpretation seem very weak and the testimony of many JWs and ex-Jws cannot be simply dismissed by your personal remarks as easily as you seem to think they can.
Many times people just like to talk about something that will get them attention.
17 Dec 14
1 edit
Originally posted by roigamWhen the JW elders in Beauroberts' case tried to break up his family and arrange for his children to be separated from him, what verses in the bible do you suppose they "presented" to justify their actions?
The subject of disfellowshipping has been well presented from the Bible.
- Joined
- 29 Dec 08
- Moves
- 6788
17 Dec 14
Originally posted by beaurobertsBack to the OP:
Having recently been disfellowshipped from the Jehovah Witness organization for partaking in a blood transfusion after several medically necessary surgeries and procedures, I am curious to know what everyones' opinion is on disfellowship as a whole. Is it necessary? Do you believe it is in accordance with Biblical teachings? How far should the disfellows ...[text shortened]... ary and whether or not it has worked or can work or if it can only have adverse effects.
Beau
There is a Facebook group you can find by a google search on
Disfellowshipped Jehovah's Witnesses Support
I'm not on Facebook BTW.
17 Dec 14
1 edit
Originally posted by roigamYou don't seem to understand what "hearsay" is. "Hearsay" is a legal term used to describe evidence in a court of law which cannot be accepted as valid because it is the witness describing what another person said to them about the accused. It is "hearsay".
I don't give much credence to hearsay.
Many times people just like to talk about something that will get them attention.
The subject of disfellowshipping has been well presented from the Bible.
Each individual can choose for themselves what they believe.
for more information about the Bible or God's Kingdom go to jw.org
Beauroberts posts are not hearsay - they are acceptable evidence directly from his own mouth describing the vile practices of your religious cult. Your best defense of the reprehensible behavior of the Jehovah's Witness leaders is to attempt to undermine beauroberts evidence by attacking him as a person when you don't even know him and lack the common decency to even interact with him.
This is known as an ad hominem attack. It is the favoured weapon of choice for Jehovah's Witnesses in this forum and exposes the small-minded and mean-spirited attitude of yourself, Galveston75 and robbie carrobie when he is here posting.
17 Dec 14
Originally posted by galveston75Of course you will rationalise the behaviour of your leaders and appease your own conscience through applying the filters your religion has developed to interpret the social bullying and psychological torture used to attempt to control the members of your religious cult. Trying to drive a wedge between a man and his wife is most definitely not scriptural by any stretch of the imagination, however I enjoy watching you and roigam trying to defend these viscous practices as in doing so you provide ample evidence of the true nature of your religion.
So going back to the original question about being disfellowshipped and basically if it is a thing to do no matter what the reason and should it be done...yes it is a bible based action that has to be done to protect the congregation from ones who in the view of the elders and thru serious prayer to Jehovah has to be put into place. Most countries have s ...[text shortened]... come in and take hold of of our heart and to realise he knows far more then we do on everything.
17 Dec 14
1 edit
Originally posted by JS357I think your concern for the victims of ostracisation is admirable and appropriate. However, the OP asks "Is Disfellowship Physically and Spiritually Necessary?"
Back to the OP:
There is a Facebook group you can find by a google search on
Disfellowshipped Jehovah's Witnesses Support
I'm not on Facebook BTW.
I have argued that it is necessary for an organisation like the one under discussion here if that organisation is to maintain the kind of cult regime that it chooses to implement and which it uses to empower and perpetuate itself.
If people can and do escape, all well and good. Of course I welcome it. In beauroberts' case clearly disfellowship was not physically and spiritually necessary (for him to be a follower of Christ) and the organisation has lost a member.
I think disfellowshipping people like beauroberts makes the cult that he was a member of stronger and makes the remaining ['loyal'] members feel stronger.
From their collective point of view (and in their defence of their take on what they hold to be "spiritually" necessary) then the psychological abuse brought to bear upon him was necessary. And it also sent a message to the remaining membership.
17 Dec 14
1 edit
An interesting point to note is that most of the other Christian's here will not defend beauroberts and his and his family's treatment at the hands of the Jehovah's Witnesses, nor will they publicly condemn these horrible practices any more than they will publicly condemn what RJHinds said when he told another Christian that they "deserve to burn in hell" because they disagreed with him.
Christianity and indeed Christ himself is not well represented in this forum.
17 Dec 14
Originally posted by roigamI wanted to take the time to address this post, being very careful how I phrase my words so as not to display anger or the fact that I am hurt.
I have been one of Jehovah's Witnesses for over 43 years and have never seen or heard of anyone being disfellowshipped for taking blood, even when the courts have forced it on them. Have you considered that BR was not Disfellowshipped for that reason but for another that we don't know about?
As humans we have a tendency to tell the story that makes us look best or gets the most sympathy.
jw.org
Some time ago you may have been correct to question the validity of my statements. I was kicked out of my parents home, homeless on the streets of Seattle selling drugs to get by. I enjoyed wine. I enjoyed pornography. I enjoyed gambling. I enjoyed graphic violence displayed in movies and video games. I enjoyed sex outside of marriage. I enjoyed drugs lots and lots of drugs.
Then at some point as happens with many folks, I hit rock bottom, got checked into a halfway house by some loving and caring individuals and essentially had my face to face cathartic moment with my creator. I took my head out of the sand. I put down the bottle. I stepped away from the drugs. I left behind the world of debauchery. I stopped looking at pornography, violent movies and video games and the like. I looked around and really questioned what I had been doing with my life and what were some of the actions that had led me to where I was. I could smell the air for the first time in a very long time. I could feel the sensation of the wind on my skin on a cold day. I could appreciate the golden angle the angle of which the sun hits all things that grow. At the time I didn't know the entire truth, but I knew that I wanted to find out more.
My life has not been easy. It has been a rollercoaster ride full of challenges. There is no doubt in my mind that the cancer that is now in my body has a direct correlation to my actions 15 years ago. There is no doubt in my mind that if I had not been drunk or strung out on heroine I would have made much better choices. I would have worn a condem every time. As we say you can not change your past, all you can do is learn from it.
I have a wonderful, kind and forgiving wife. She was asked to ignore me not as my wife but as a fellow member of the congregation. A very small detail but in this case it would have made a huge difference.
I am not going to defend the validity of my claim, nor am I going to engage you. I could offer the name and location of the Kingdom Hall I used to attend. I could provide you the list of three names of the elders that came to my door the day of my surgery. I could provide you with a letter I wrote to the organization and I could provide you with their "heartfelt" response. But I will not do that. I know who I am. I know what I did and didn't do "wrong" and I thank you for your thoughtful and intelligent response to my original query. Yes I was baptized as a witness on June 22, 2011 my wife was also baptised the same day...fyi
On a side note: I wanted to thank everyone for their support and for your suggestions on what my actions should be and the types of organizations my family and I should seek out. As you may know my search has been quite extensive and largely academic based. Currently my wife and I are reading past and current Watchtowers and writing the society letters offering questions to very specific doctrine. Perhaps we should have done this before baptism, perhaps we should leave the organization alone all together...perhaps we will. But for right now we have very specific questions and are getting very specific answers. My search is not JW exclusive, but is addressing some of those same questions with other organizations as well.
Beau
17 Dec 14
Originally posted by beaurobertsI didn't drop as far into the things you did, but I was sure in the middle of
I wanted to take the time to address this post, being very careful how I phrase my words so as not to display anger or the fact that I am hurt.
Some time ago you may have been correct to question the validity of my statements. I was kicked out of my parents home, homeless on the streets of Seattle selling drugs to get by. I enjoyed wine. I enjoyed por ...[text shortened]... lusive, but is addressing some of those same questions with other organizations as well.
Beau
it. My kids have a hard time believing me when I tell them about my life
before Jesus Christ since I've now been a Christian longer than I wasn't and
they have only known me as a Christian.
People can do and say wicked things, they can say and do them at the
worse possible times too. There are people on this board in this thread after
I told them we lost a baby threw it back in my face to attempt to make a
point on a debate. Don't look at people, look at Jesus Christ!
Ask God to lead you, it isn't like He died and is gone forever, He is more
real the shmucks on this board including me. He loves you and your family
and the one thing I know after having gone through some bad times, He
will never leave you or forsake you.
17 Dec 14
Originally posted by KellyJayWhich thread did this happen on? Were you trying to make a point in a debate when you told them you'd lost a baby?
There are people on this board in this thread after I told them we lost a baby threw it back in my face to attempt to make a point on a debate.
17 Dec 14
Originally posted by beaurobertsBoth roigam and Galveston75 have questioned your integrity and honesty, I think the patience and grace you are exhibiting in the wake of their callous indifference to your plight is edifying.
I wanted to take the time to address this post, being very careful how I phrase my words so as not to display anger or the fact that I am hurt.
Some time ago you may have been correct to question the validity of my statements. I was kicked out of my parents home, homeless on the streets of Seattle selling drugs to get by. I enjoyed wine. I enjoyed por ...[text shortened]... lusive, but is addressing some of those same questions with other organizations as well.
Beau
It is interesting that while both roigam and Galveston75 openly display their disbelief at you being shunned because of receiving a transfusion, neither have demonstrated their real certainty in this as neither has had the courage nor common courtesy to address you personally.
It is of course your prerogative to write to you local Kingdom Hall but I doubt it will get you anywhere, and what would be a satisfactory response from them anyway - would an apology cause you to return? I hope not for your sake.
Your testimony here has been a sad but revealing confirmation of the spiritual, physical and psychological dangers of of joining the Jehovah's Witness cult.