Evolution ?

Originally posted by RJHinds
No. The Sun was not created until the fourth day. That is a 24 hour day and not a 1000 years or a billion years. God was not trying to deceive us, because that is the job of Satan the Devil. Even though time means little to God, it means a great deal to us. HalleluYah !!!

No. The Sun was not created until the fourth day. That is a 24 hour day and not a 1000 years or a billion years. God was not trying to deceive us, because that is the job of Satan the Devil. Even though time means little to God, it means a great deal to us. HalleluYah !!!

Have you yet answered the question about the existence of pitch before the flood wherewith Noah sealed the ark ?

I will take "I don't know" as a legitimate answer. And if you have answered it and I have not read it, please excuse me.

"Make yourself an ark of gopher wood; you shall make rooms in the ark and shall cover it within and without with PITCH." (Genesis 6:14)

Was the oil that produced the "pitch" in the earth before the flood due to compressed carbonized ancient vegetation ?

Originally posted by jaywill
Some people have voiced disdain at my posting links to Video.
You Atheists should be flattered that I am seeking "back up" to such great atheist arguments you guys have by those more trained to take them on.

Prof [b]Alvin Plantinga on says in essence - "You cannot be an Evolutionist and accept Naturalism".

Someone else entitled this ...[text shortened]... s Naturalism. [/b]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=bufXyou5yhM[/b]

I couldn't watch it. I didn't have a copy of the handout. 😛

Originally posted by jaywill
Some people have voiced disdain at my posting links to Video.
You Atheists should be flattered that I am seeking "back up" to such great atheist arguments you guys have by those more trained to take them on.

Prof [b]Alvin Plantinga on says in essence - "You cannot be an Evolutionist and accept Naturalism".

Someone else entitled this ...[text shortened]... s Naturalism. [/b]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=bufXyou5yhM[/b]

no sir. the disdain is that you post the videos without showing that you have understood the material presented within and weather or not you are prepared to defend arguments brought up.

Originally posted by RJHinds
No. The Sun was not created until the fourth day. That is a 24 hour day and not a 1000 years or a billion years. God was not trying to deceive us, because that is the job of Satan the Devil. Even though time means little to God, it means a great deal to us. HalleluYah !!!

Gen 1: 3-5

Then God commanded,
Let there be light—and light appeared. 4 God was pleased with what he saw.
Then he separated the light from the darkness, 5 and he named the light
Day and the darkness
Night.
Evening passed and morning came—that was the first day.

READ what the Bible says..................

You can't have a morning and an evening without the sun already existing.

Originally posted by jaywill

No. The Sun was not created until the fourth day. That is a 24 hour day and not a 1000 years or a billion years. God was not trying to deceive us, because that is the job of Satan the Devil. Even though time means little to God, it means a great deal to us. HalleluYah !!!

Have you yet answered the question about the existence of [b]pit ...[text shortened]... itch" in the earth before the flood due to compressed carbonized ancient vegetation ?[/b]

The earth was not created in 6 literal days as he is determind to teach. A creative day is much longer then a 24 hour period and this is not what the Bible says. Gods days and time scale is much different then humans....

Originally posted by menace71
I do listen but some of the answers don't make sense. I honestly don't believe in aliens in the classic sense either. The answers don't add up is all. We were just plodding along for millions of years then one day some cave man scratched his head and said hummmm I think I need a wheel? Then in the last 6000 years we've exploded up to where we are today? ...[text shortened]... Having children kind proves how fast we actually do advance however.

Manny



Manny

Good reasoning Manny....

Originally posted by galveston75
The earth was not created in 6 literal days as he is determind to teach. A creative day is much longer then a 24 hour period and this is not what the Bible says. Gods days and time scale is much different then humans....

it's not different when the bible specifically says : the evening and morning was the n'th day. it is talking about literal days.

Originally posted by menace71
We were just plodding along for millions of years then one day some cave man scratched his head and said hummmm I think I need a wheel?

Well, when you put it that way, yeah. But is it really so hard to imagine how gradual improvement in the craftsmanship ability of humans could lead to something like the wheel?

Originally posted by jaywill

No. The Sun was not created until the fourth day. That is a 24 hour day and not a 1000 years or a billion years. God was not trying to deceive us, because that is the job of Satan the Devil. Even though time means little to God, it means a great deal to us. HalleluYah !!!

Have you yet answered the question about the existence of [b]pit ...[text shortened]... itch" in the earth before the flood due to compressed carbonized ancient vegetation ?[/b]

Yes, I covered this before when I referenced other concerns that demonstrate that it doesn not take thousands of years to produce coal and petroleum. Here is the one you are interested in.

http://creation.com/the-pitch-for-noahs-ark

Originally posted by RJHinds
Yes, I covered this before when I referenced other concerns that demonstrate that it doesn not take thousands of years to produce coal and petroleum. Here is the one you are interested in.

http://creation.com/the-pitch-for-noahs-ark

If it doesn't take a long time to make coal and oil, why are we almost out? There should be new deposits being made as we speak. The oil discoveries are getting smaller and smaller not bigger. Your delusions are showing again.

Originally posted by VoidSpirit
it's not different when the bible specifically says : the evening and morning was the n'th day. it is talking about literal days.

No it's not. First the Bible uses the word "day or days" to mean many different lengths of time.
But one scripture shows this would no doubt not mean a literal 24 hour period...


2 Peter 3:8
Good News Translation (GNT)

8 But do not forget one thing, my dear friends! There is no difference in the Lord's sight between one day and a thousand years; to him the two are the same.


So at the least, a creative day would be a thousand years long minimum.

But get these points:

The Bible does not specify the length of each of the creative periods. Yet all six of them have ended, it being said with respect to the sixth day (as in the case of each of the preceding five days): “And there came to be evening and there came to be morning, a sixth day.” (Ge 1:31) However, this statement is not made regarding the seventh day, on which God proceeded to rest, indicating that it continued. (Ge 2:1-3) Also, more than 4,000 years after the seventh day, or God’s rest day, commenced, Paul indicated that it was still in progress. At Hebrews 4:1-11 he referred to the earlier words of David (Ps 95:7, 8, 11) and to Genesis 2:2 and urged: “Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest.” By the apostle’s time, the seventh day had been continuing for thousands of years and had not yet ended. The Thousand Year Reign of Jesus Christ, who is Scripturally identified as “Lord of the sabbath” (Mt 12:8), is evidently part of the great sabbath, God’s rest day. (Re 20:1-6) This would indicate the passing of thousands of years from the commencement of God’s rest day to its end. The week of days set forth at Genesis 1:3 to 2:3, the last of which is a sabbath, seems to parallel the week into which the Israelites divided their time, observing a sabbath on the seventh day thereof, in keeping with the divine will. (Ex 20:8-11) And, since the seventh day has been continuing for thousands of years, it may reasonably be concluded that each of the six creative periods, or days, was at least thousands of years in length.

So did you notice that all the creative days had ended... But the seventh day has not as the scriptures make it clear that we are STILL in the seventh day which is a length of time that God is resting from the creative process. And we are "4K+ years" into that seventh day.
So could that seventh day be 7 thousand years long? Again the Bible does not say how long his rest day is or how long the creative days were. But in no way was it a 24 hour period as it would not make sense as we are now over 4K years from Adam being created which was at the end of the 6th day of creation.

Originally posted by menace71
We were just plodding along for millions of years then one day some cave man scratched his head and said hummmm I think I need a wheel? Then in the last 6000 years we've exploded up to where we are today?

Technology is cumulative. Do you dispute that technology today is exploding? Do you dispute that the basics of the computer were discovered in the last 100 years or so and have exploded up to where were are today and will continue to explode? Do you dispute that we were plodding along for at least recorded history (6000 years or so) until some city man scratched his head and said hmmmm I think I need a transistor?

So important effects to consider:
1. prior to farming, humans used to move, with all their belongings. Technological advances in such cases are much rarer and harder because much of what you make cannot be easily transported. Try watching a documentary on nomadic people.
2. farming changed things. It allowed people to settle down, created new needs for technology, created a need for government etc.
3. some key innovations made massive differences: eg writing, the wheel, education.
4. don't underestimate writing and education. Much of the world has been illiterate historically (and a significant proportion still is). It is amazing how difficult it is to pass on ideas over distance and over generations without the use of writing. I am of the belief that one reason Europe beat China in technological advance in the middle ages was that the Chinese writing system is more complicated so educating large numbers of people was harder for the Chinese.
5. Better health means longer lives and greater productivity. Disease historically killed most people. When the normal time to die is about 40 for men and even younger for women, progress is a lot harder - especially if you don't have a universal child education system. Remember that most children prior to organised education learnt most things from their mothers (its still largely true) but mothers were often younger, often died during child birth, and because of being young mothers, didn't have much time for education themselves.

Originally posted by sonhouse
If it doesn't take a long time to make coal and oil, why are we almost out? There should be new deposits being made as we speak. The oil discoveries are getting smaller and smaller not bigger. Your delusions are showing again.

It has been done in the laboratory and I have referenced articles on this before.
Here is an example:

http://www.creationworldview.org/articles_view.asp?id=51

Originally posted by galveston75
Gen 1: 3-5

Then God commanded,
Let there be light—and light appeared. 4 God was pleased with what he saw.
Then he separated the light from the darkness, 5 and he named the light
Day and the darkness
Night.
Evening passed and morning came—that was the first day.

READ what the Bible says..................

You can't have a morning and an evening without the sun already existing.

Why not?
Are you saying the Holy Bible is wrong just like the Atheists do?
Do you no longer believe it is inspired of God?

Originally posted by galveston75
No it's not. First the Bible uses the word "day or days" to mean many different lengths of time.
But one scripture shows this would no doubt not mean a literal 24 hour period...


2 Peter 3:8
Good News Translation (GNT)

8 But do not forget one thing, my dear friends! There is no difference in the Lord's sight between one day and a thousand year now over 4K years from Adam being created which was at the end of the 6th day of creation.

This verse has nothing to do with the creative day being 1000 years are more. There are many mornings and evenings in a thousand years. It simply means God is not controlled by time since it also says a thousand years is as a day. A more literal translation is as follows:

But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(NKJV)

Don't forget the context in which Peter said this. He was not referrig to the creation days.

God said He divided the light from the darkness. This is the same sa dividing the day from the night or the morning from the evening. He did not need the sun to do this for this was the first day and the sun is said to have been made on the 4th day along with the moon and stars. This was for several reasons, like providing the sun rays for plant life that He had created the day before and, as stated, for use to be able to tell time. God already knew how to tell time and therefore the length of time for each creative event was supplied by God, since man was not there until the 6th day.

P.S. The second part of your post about the 7th day never ending made me ponder this question. Did a statement need to be made about the end of the seventh day, since no creative work was done and it was stated that this was the 7th day? The Sabbath rest for man on the 7th day is modeled after this and that Sabbath ends after 24 hours. And when Christ was accused of breaking the Sabbath rest, He stated that both He and his Father worked. But I was still wondering about this so I put it in Google and came of with the following that give support for your idea or the Watchtower idea, whatever.

http://thebibleandscience.webs.com/articles/creationdays.htm