Difficulty on Noah's Flood?

Originally posted by sonship

I said: "The stories in the bible have an underlying historical basis, and the underlying historical basis found in the bible is found in its stories. Is that what you mean?"

In other words you are seeking to pass off circular logic as substantiation and evidence. Your answer did nothing to address this.

Originally posted by FMF
I said: "The stories in the bible have an underlying historical basis, and the underlying historical basis found in the bible is found in its stories. Is that what you mean?"

In other words you are seeking to pass off circular logic as substantiation and evidence. Your answer did nothing to address this.

If you are quoting me and I did say "the stories in the Bible" then that was my error.
And the incorrect way i phrased this, if that is the case, is clarified in the post above as to what I really meant.

If I said "the stories of the Bible have an underlying historical basis" then that was my error. In the case of Noah in Genesis I believe that is the history underlying the many somewhat similar folk accounts of a large world destroying deluge.

Originally posted by sonship
If you are quoting me and I did say "the stories in the Bible" then that was my error.
And the incorrect way i phrased this, if that is the case, is clarified in the post above as to what I really meant.

If I said "the stories of the Bible have an underlying historical basis" then that was my error. In the case of [b]Noah in Genesis I believe that ...[text shortened]... e history underlying the many somewhat similar folk accounts of a large world destroying deluge.[/b]

Don't these similar accounts of a flood lend more to the assimilation of myth? (Rather than pointing to an underlying historical truth).

For example, in Indian religion (from the Andaman Islands) the creator God Puluga, 'sends a devastating flood to punish people who have forgotten his commands. Only four people survive this flood: two men and two women.' - Surely all such accounts can not be referencing Noah? Surely the bible writer was just giving his version of a well known myth of the time?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Don't these similar accounts of a flood lend more to the assimilation of myth? (Rather than pointing to an underlying historical truth).

For example, in Indian religion (from the Andaman Islands) the creator God Puluga, 'sends a devastating flood to punish people who have forgotten his commands. Only four people survive this flood: two men and two ...[text shortened]... cing Noah? Surely the bible writer was just giving his version of a well known myth of the time?

Don't these similar accounts of a flood lend more to the assimilation of myth? (Rather than pointing to an underlying historical truth).

For example, in Indian religion (from the Andaman Islands) the creator God Puluga, 'sends a devastating flood to punish people who have forgotten his commands. Only four people survive this flood: two men and two women.' - Surely all such accounts can not be referencing Noah? Surely the bible writer was just giving his version of a well known myth of the time?

An important question is 'Who is embellishing upon who?"

I think that we have the authentic record in the Bible (to the degree that God told us what is important for us to know) and various replicas to varying degrees of variation outside of the Bible.

That both could be fictional myth is logically possible. But I think that is not the case.

Originally posted by sonship
Sonhouse, you are blasphemous in your insults against God and your dirty vocabulary. I would talk with you but I don't like your dirty ways. Perhaps you do it on purpose to insult the Christian out of the conversation. It works.

They say you should not get down in the mud to wrestle with a pig. You might get dirty and the pig loves it.

And you refuse even to think about the issues I brought up. No insult meant, I am pointing out the story was written by men and is not real. Why don't you answer the charges rather than just saying it is insulting? Like the lack of genetic diversity of all land animals that would have certainly resulted from lowering the gene pool to one reproducing couple.

Or the idea that all land animals on Earth are destroyed in order for this alleged god to get back at some alleged bad humans?

Doesn't that strike you as the least bit human like for someone to spite a group like that?

Originally posted by sonship
In the case of Noah in Genesis I believe that is the history underlying the many somewhat similar folk accounts of a large world destroying deluge.

But how could the people who were supposedly deliberately wiped out by the supernatural flood have generated "similar folk accounts"? Don't you believe that everybody except Noah and his family was killed?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Don't these similar accounts of a flood lend more to the assimilation of myth? (Rather than pointing to an underlying historical truth).

For example, in Indian religion (from the Andaman Islands) the creator God Puluga, 'sends a devastating flood to punish people who have forgotten his commands. Only four people survive this flood: two men and two ...[text shortened]... cing Noah? Surely the bible writer was just giving his version of a well known myth of the time?

OR there was one event that got changed as time progressed and some told the story with
out ever writing it down.

Originally posted by KellyJay
OR there was one event that got changed as time progressed and some told the story with
out ever writing it down.

If you can imagine it, then you can believe it. It's human nature.

Originally posted by FMF
But how could the people who were supposedly deliberately wiped out by the supernatural flood have generated "similar folk accounts"? Don't you believe that everybody except Noah and his family was killed?

The survivors left the ark. They told of the story to their children.

Genesis 10 tells of how their descendants spread out after the Tower of Babel. This chapter is called by some "the table of nations". The account they took with them. It underwent variations. It went to many places and cultures on the earth.

That is how eight people knew something that was passed down and spread across the globe.

Originally posted by sonship
That is how eight people knew something that was passed down and spread across the globe.

And what reason can you give me to believe you - aside from your sincerity and certainty, which are not reasons?

Originally posted by FMF
And what reason can you give me to believe you - aside from your sincerity and certainty, which are not reasons?

I do not have proof of these things like a mathematical formula proves something.

I also have no proof that you being presented with the most persuasive argument would be inclined to want any relationship with God of the Bible.

What reason can you give me that your questions rise from sincere desire to know the truth rather than from an egotistical game to assure yourself that you can live without repentance to God?

You don't assume I can be trusted.
I don't assume you can be trusted either.

Originally posted by sonship
I do not have proof of these things like a mathematical formula proves something.

I also have no proof that you being presented with the most persuasive argument would be inclined to want any relationship with God of the Bible.

What reason can you give me that your questions rise from sincere desire to know the truth rather than from an egotistical g ...[text shortened]... ntance to God?

You don't assume I can be trusted.
I don't assume you can be trusted either.

Well do you have evidence that everyone around the world believes that they are descended from Noah and his sons? You have offered various flood stories around the world as evidence that the Noah story is historical fact. If the story of the flood only came from Noah's family then you will have evidence of this. Or are you no longer making that claim?

Originally posted by sonship
What reason can you give me that your questions rise from sincere desire to know the truth rather than from an egotistical game to assure yourself that you can live without repentance to God?.

This kind of thing will not deflect scrutiny of the claims you make you make in public.

Originally posted by FMF

Well do you have evidence that everyone around the world believes that they are descended from Noah and his sons?

No. And this is a leading question. I never said "everyone around the world believes that they are descended from Noah and his sons."

This, I think, is a leading question fallacy. I did say there are a lot of accounts of an ancient deluge.

I am carefully looking at some extra-bilblical evidence proposed by explores to Turkey in the mountain range of Ararat.

If I link you to what I am considering I do not want anyone to assume I am endorsing everything said in the video. And to those with aggressive hostility towards the idea, you are likely only to pick up on many problematic things which I myself may not endorse.

However, there may be some valid matters which should not be tossed out with the invalid.

Particular interest to me is the four eight foot high massive stones which have holes for what could have been large ropes. The massive stones could be large anchors.

I am reluctant to link anyone to this interesting video just yet. But if you insist start from 13:32 forwad and listen what is said about the four large eight ton stones which are theorized to perhaps have served as anchors. They have holes in them which seem to have been for large ropes.

YouTube

There are things on the video I would not suggest are evidence. But perhaps some other things, like the four massive stones which appear to be anchor stones, might be something to consider.

Also, dismissing the researcher merely by name may be throwing baby bath out with the bath water. Sometimes some evidence of a person of criticized repute may still be worth contemplation.

Cautiously then, I want to think about what Ron Wyatt thinks he has found in Turkey evidencing a large sea going vessel ( perhaps the ark of Noah ). And interpretation of what he says he found is not ignored. He has the right to interpret the evidence as to what he thinks it is significant to.

Also 17:50 has some interesting things. The detecting of metal objects which outline a large grid like structure is interesting as possible evidence of the ark.

Egyptian cubits size (Moses was educated in Egypt) corresponds to the biblical measurements. (19:00 approximately and forward. Look at what the man says about the anchor stones ( 22:00) approximately.

Look at 28:54 in the structure revealed by metal detection.

Originally posted by sonship

Well do you have evidence that everyone around the world believes that they are descended from Noah and his sons?

No. And this is a leading question. I never said "everyone around the world believes that they are descended from Noah and his sons."

This, I think, is a leading question fallacy. I did say there are a lot of accounts o ...[text shortened]... 22:00) approximately.

Look at 28:54 in the structure revealed by metal detection.[/b]

You still have not answered the question as to why a god would destroy all animal land life just to kill some bad humans. Or continue to abuse the genetic lines of the animals saved and make the entire line now come from one reproducing pair.

Another thing, did the folks on the Arc have two mosquitos, 2 fly's, 2 ants, 2 bees, 2 wasps also? Because a world wide flood would surely have killed ALL those life forms also.

No see'ums, horse fly's, green fly's and on and on, how do you think they would have survived an innundation as severe as a ww flood, where it rains like a half inch of water per MINUTE for more than a month.

Can't you even begin to see the implausability of the whole picture there?

The bible says 2 of each animal. It says nothing about mosquito's, bees, ants and such.

You have to realize under such an extreme innundation none of those life forms would have had a chance in hell of surviving. Even underground insects would have been innudated with water and they all breathe in oxygen one way or another and there would have been no oxy to breathe with a couple of miles of water overhead.

Just think about that.