Certainly not a simple doctrine.

Originally posted by RJHinds
So they are cult groups. Okay. 😏

No. They are not necessarily groups. Its anyone that cannot repeat faithfully and truthfully the teachings of Christ.

The teachings of Christ is centered around brotherly love and charity or good works as clearly stated here:

.. Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? He said unto him, .. Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. And he said .. this do, and thou shalt live. (Luke 10:25-28 KJV)

Yet there are many Christians who make statements like "good works is filthy rags", when neither Christ nor the Apostles said any such thing.

Originally posted by sonship

You statement that you know the new testament better than than I says it all.

It was not intended to say it all. It was intended to be my honest reply to you saying the teaching of Paul on grace went over my head.

No, I have lived in grace, as it says -

[quote] [b] " ... exhorting and testifying fully the this is the true grac ...[text shortened]... hip with Him, and walk in Him.

[b]"Enter into this grace and stand in it." said Peter.[/b]

I asked you a direct question earlier and you did not reply.

Do you think that Christ died for Christians only?

Originally posted by Rajk999
I asked you a direct question earlier and you did not reply.

Do you think that Christ died for Christians only?

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.

Sorry to butt in

🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
'Minimal requirements ?? What I have quoted is anything but minimal. You on the other hand is the chief proponent of the most minimalist doctrine ever devised .. "believe and you will be saved", and saved eternally ... not even God can witheraw from you.. I am the one who constantly says that there is more to it than just belief and that it, as Christ and ...[text shortened]... nterested in people living righteously than in their claims of faith professed with their mouth.

And again, you fail to notice that there are plenty of people who call themselves Christian who DO follow Christ and DO follow his commandments. You're just blinded to that because of your over-eagerness to bad-mouth Christians and your belief that most Christians aren't very Christian at all. This cannot be further from the truth.

Originally posted by sonship

[b] "The Jews then said to Him, You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?

Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham came into being I am.

So they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus was hidden and went out of the temple." (John 8:56-59)

Jesus did not say " Before Abraham I was." ...[text shortened]... t me to you." (Exo. 3:14) [/b] [/quote]

Capitalization in the English is quite appropriate.[/b]

You're barking up the wrong tree with this argument. Robbie will never listen to reason because he's too invested in his man-made dogma and his Bible created from his man-made dogma. Yes, like you, I would love to see him come to the truth and come back to God, but I fear that this is just not happening in our lifetimes.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
C'mon Jaywill, all one need do is read John 8:58 in context to understand the absurdity of your claim.

[quote]John 8
53“Surely You are not greater than our father Abraham, who died? The prophets died too; whom do You make Yourself out to be?” 54Jesus answered, “If I glorify Myself, [b]My glory is nothing; it is My Father who glorifies Me, of whom you ...[text shortened]... s.”

Do you also believe that "the man born blind" and Zacharias are also claiming to be God?

And literalists, like you and Robbie, often find the Bible to be difficult to understand. But Robbie's error is not saying he finds it difficult to understand, but saying that he KNOWS what it means and yet he still gets it wrong.

The whole translation of "I AM" goes beyond the mere words. But literalists will never figure that out.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Not a single valid reason. If you are unconvinced then tell us why its unconvincing. If you ever manage to rustle up a reason other than your ignorance, let us know, as it stands we have been treated to enough of that already.

"We"? "Us"?

You mean You, don't you? So far, the only one drowning in their arrogant ignorance is you, Robbie.

Originally posted by divegeester
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also died for sins once [b]for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.

Sorry to butt in

🙂[/b]

But, one thing to remember is that those who have accepted Christ's atoning sacrifice on the cross, believing unto him, accepting Christ as their Savior and committing themselves to follow Christ, are, by definition, Christians.

So while Christ died for all men, only the ones who acknowledge and accept this gift from God ARE Christians. Those who accept the deal ARE Christians, no matter who they were previously.

Originally posted by divegeester
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also died for sins once [b]for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit.

Sorry to butt in

🙂[/b]

Sorry for what. This is a public forum 🙂 Thanks for your input, and your reference is spot on. Jaywill has a problem answering that question apparently because there are things that he says which implies that he really believes that Christ died for Christians alone. Here again:

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men

The grace of God that brings salvation is Jesus Christ and the sacrifice Christ made is the grace of God given freely to ALL MEN.

Originally posted by Suzianne
But, one thing to remember is that those who have accepted Christ's atoning sacrifice on the cross, believing unto him, accepting Christ as their Savior and committing themselves to follow Christ, are, by definition, [b]Christians.

So while Christ died for all men, only the ones who acknowledge and accept this gift from God ARE Christians. Those who accept the deal ARE Christians, no matter who they were previously.[/b]

Does it matter then if one is a Christian or not? (If Christ died for all men).

Sure, Christians may get to travel in first class, but even atheists get to board the plane.

Originally posted by Suzianne
But, one thing to remember is that those who have accepted Christ's atoning sacrifice on the cross, believing unto him, accepting Christ as their Savior and committing themselves to follow Christ, are, by definition, [b]Christians.

So while Christ died for all men, only the ones who acknowledge and accept this gift from God ARE Christians. Those who accept the deal ARE Christians, no matter who they were previously.[/b]

I was responding to the question "did Christ only die for Christians" and pointing out that that is not supported in scripture.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Does it matter then if one is a Christian or not? (If Christ died for all men).

Sure, Christians may get to travel in first class, but even atheists get to board the plane.

Nope, I'm afraid it's the everlasting mass economy class "roasty-toasty" for you lot.

At least you get eternal life...of a sort.

Originally posted by divegeester
Nope, I'm afraid it's the everlasting mass economy class "roasty-toasty" for you lot.

At least you get eternal life...of a sort.

Seriously?

No one told me that when i signed up to this whole atheist malarkey.

Concerning ToO's concept that Jesus is not the I AM. He writes

C'mon Jaywill, all one need do is read John 8:58 in context to understand the absurdity of your claim.

ToO likes to pretend that I am always being very unreasonable.

So we bring him faithfully back the John's prologue in his Gospel -

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... and the Word became flesh and tabernacled among us." (John 1:1,14)

Jesus proclaiming to the bafflement of His opposers that "Before Abraham came into being, I am." (John 8:58) is entirely consistent with John's introduction. God became a man.

"Oh C'mon jaywill" ThinkofOne custamarily protests.

They sought to stone Jesus because being a man He made Himself equal to God.

"The Jews answered Him, We are not stoning You for a good work, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a man, are making Yourself God." (John 10:33)

I sense the JW objection brewing. But I don't want to write a "wall of text". Suffice it to say that Jesus saying He is the "I AM" who is before Abraham is entirely consistent with the Gospel of John's underlying theme. The Word with God was God and became a man.

C'Mon ThinkofOne ! Let's be a little more reasonable here !

"Thomas answered and said to Him, My Lord and My God!

Jesus said to him, Because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed." (John 20:28,29)

Blessed are those who believe WHAT?. That is believed that Jesus is God. That is that Jesus is our Lord and our God if we would receive HIm. But if not Jesus is still "Lord ... and ... God"

The Apostle John faithfully included John 8:58 to drive home the central burden of his Gospel. Christ, the Logos with God and Who IS God, became flesh, was incarnated.

The exclamation of "Truly, truly" in verse 58 means Jesus REALLY wants us to get the truth.

"Jesus said to them, Truly, truly, I say to you before Abraham came into being, I am."

The Logos, the Word Who was with God and WAS God, of course was before Abraham came into being, as well as Adam and everyone else. He was before the world was -

" Father, concerning that which You have given Me, I desire that they also may be with Me where I am, that they may behold My glory, which You have given Me, for You loved be before the foundation of the world." (John 17:26)

"And now, glorify Me along with Yourself, Father, with the glory I had with You before the world was." (v.5)

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Seriously?

No one told me that when i signed up to this whole atheist malarkey.

Well ignorance is no excuse I'm afraid, besides God sent you RJHinds to inform you of your impending eternal doom and you ridiculed him.