Certainly not a simple doctrine.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
then you will need to explain why its unconvincing...

I'm unconvinced about your opinion posted in this forum about capitalisation and grammar. All you have posted is your opinion no actual evidence, no research by qualified academics (outside and independent of your cult), nothing peer reviewed. Just your opinion based on some stuff your cult has pushed your way. So it's hardly surprising that I'm not convinced, moved or otherwise. Repeatedly posting the same "self-certified" opinions and repeatedly demanding that I take note of them is not an argument or debate robbie.

Originally posted by divegeester
I'm unconvinced about your opinion posted in this forum about capitalisation and grammar. All you have posted is your opinion no actual evidence, no research by qualified academics (outside and independent of your cult), nothing peer reviewed. Just your opinion based on some stuff your cult has pushed your way. So it's hardly surprising that I'm not conv ...[text shortened]... opinions and repeatedly demanding that I take note of them is not an argument or debate robbie.

Not a single valid reason. If you are unconvinced then tell us why its unconvincing. If you ever manage to rustle up a reason other than your ignorance, let us know, as it stands we have been treated to enough of that already.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Not a single valid reason. If you ever manage to rustle up a reason other than your ignorance, let us know, as it stands we have been treated to enough of that already.

Your opinions lack any credibility robbie. You are a vociferous, aggressive and opinionated member of a recognised religious cult which is alienated from mainstream Christianity and which holds to what many would consider to be extreme and bizarre doctrines and practices which are virtually unrecognisable from the core tenants of Christianity. Therefore if you are going to challenge one of the core tenants of Christianity, the onus is on you to come up with a stronger argument than that of your personal opinion on something you were given by your cult leadership, which refers to capitalisation and grammar. Do you have anything more...?

Originally posted by divegeester
Your opinions lack any credibility robbie. You are a vociferous, aggressive and opinionated member of a recognised religious cult which is alienated from mainstream Christianity and which holds to what many would consider to be extreme and bizarre doctrines and practices which are virtually unrecognisable from the core tenants of Christianity. Therefor ...[text shortened]... your cult leadership, which refers to capitalisation and grammar. Do you have anything more...?

If they lack any creditability as you claim then tell us why divesgeester they are erroneous. Providing nothing but your opinion wont help you for we are not interested in what you think we are interested in reason and you seem to all intents and purposes incapable of providing any despite being asked numerous times and resort to what most people do when challenged about comments they have made and cannot substantiate them. You simply make a pile of nonsense up. So we shall try again, tell us why the reasons that I gave are unconvincing divesgeester?

Please not that the use of the term 'why' demands a reason.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
If they lack any creditability as you claim then tell us why divesgeester they are erroneous. Providing nothing but your opinion wont help you for we are not interested in what you think we are interested in reason and you seem to all intents and purposes incapable of providing any despite being asked numerous times and resort to what most people do ...[text shortened]... ve are unconvincing divesgeester?

Please not that the use of the term 'why' demands a reason.

What "nonsense" have I made up. Everything I quoted in the two relevant threads was from the Bible and linked through a Gospel based rational.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
If they lack any creditability as you claim then tell us why divesgeester they are erroneous.

The onus is on you to demonstrate that your claims are accurate, academically independent of JW influence and posses the veracity to challenge accepted scripture interpretation.

PS I said it was you who lacks credibility for the reasons in my previous post. Therefore your self-certified opinion and big claims on something you have read from your church leadership also lacks credibility when not backed up as I'm explaining to you.

Originally posted by divegeester
The onus is on you to demonstrate that your claims are accurate, academically independent of JW influence and posses the veracity to challenge accepted scripture interpretation.

PS I said it was you who lacks credibility for the reasons in my previous post. Therefore your self-certified opinion and big claims on something you have read from your church leadership also lacks credibility when not backed up as I'm explaining to you.

I have provided reason, with reference why your claim that Jesus was claiming that he was God incarnate was untrue, you have provided nothing but deflection. You have stated that my arguments are unconvincing and therefore the onus is on you to tell us why they are unconvincing but we both know that you have neither the honesty nor the integrity that is why you keep trying to deflect.

Originally posted by Rajk999

'Minimal requirements ?? What I have quoted is anything but minimal. You on the other hand is the chief proponent of the most minimalist doctrine ever devised .. "believe and you will be saved", and saved eternally ... not even God can witheraw from you.. I am the one who constantly says that there is more to it than just belief and that it, as Christ and the Apostles keep saying..

It was poorly phrased by me. And I did cause some confusion.

But I stand completely by passages showing that for instance by grace we have been saved and not of works. There is no apologizing for this.

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not of yourselves; it is the gift of God. Not of works that no one should boast." (Eph. 2:8.9)

1.) By grace the Christians "HAVE BEEN ... SAVED". This is past tense.

2.) The saving was not wages but "the GIFT of God".

3.) There is no ground for boasting in what the Christian has done because the saving was "not of works which we have done".

This forms the firm foundation upon which the Christian can grow in life and develop in his daily walk. This walk is walk is in good works which God has prepared beforehand.

"For we are His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand in order that we would walk in them" (v.10)

We were not saved by our good works. But we were save TO good works which God prepared beforehand.

This means that the good works are included in the divine life which has been imparted into the believers at salvation. We received Jesus Christ and His living with all of His perfect works are imparted to us. It is a life long matter that we learn to abide in Him and walk in Him living Him out.

This is God's masterpiece - that Jesus Christ live again on the earth. But this time He lives within His saved people. Spontaneously being expressed in their walk.

This is God's POEMA [Greek], or God's masterful work of art - His "masterpiece" which is being perfected and emerging up from the old world. She is in the process of being manifested in the process of our perfecting:

Christ's mighty prayer is for the perfecting and building up of this masterpiece, the church.

"And the glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they all may be one, even as We are one;

I in them, and You in Me, that they may be PERFECTED into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me." (John 17:22,23)

We are saved by the gift of Christ not by our good works. We are saved unto good works which we are to walk in which come in the divine nature and life of the Christ that has been imparted into us. The process of perfecting is going on in the church age.

Anyway here is another verse that says what Im saying :

James 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

There is no way to live a pure Christian life without abiding in the pure divine life and nature of the Spirit of Christ that has begotten the believers. This why Jesus said apart from Him and abiding in Him we can do nothing.

LIke the unhealthy branch grafted into the healthy tree, has its defects swallowed up by the healthy life of the tree, the believers have to abide in Christ as the true vine. This is all in John 15.

Apart from abiding in Him we can do nothing for God's kingdom and God's will.

"I am the vine; you are the branches. He who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit; for apart from Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5)

There is no way to live the Christian life without receiving the gift of eternal life and abiding in Him. God in fact only wants Christ. So Paul wrote some 13 epistles to James's 1 epistle. James was rather transitional, still somewhat enfluenced in the Judaism.

Paul wrote more clearly dedicated to the new covenant tell us for him to LIVE was Christ.

"For to me to live is Christ ..." (Phil. 1:20)

And it was no longer him that lives but Christ that lives within him. Christ therefore wants to not only save us eternally but mingle with our personality to live again on earth from within us.

"I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Gal. 2:20)

Originally posted by sonship

'Minimal requirements ?? What I have quoted is anything but minimal. You on the other hand is the chief proponent of the most minimalist doctrine ever devised .. "believe and you will be saved", and saved eternally ... not even God can witheraw from you.. I am the one who constantly says that there is more to it than just belief and that it, as Chris ...[text shortened]... the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me." (Gal. 2:20)

[/b]

Grace therefore and the sacrifice of Jesus, according to your doctrine is for Christians only. Obviously the teachings of Paul flew over your head.

The Pharisees were convinced that they had a monopoly on God and the Gentiles needed to follow the law of Moses in order to be saved. Their focus was on the rituals and the simidimi petty shallow aspects of their teachings, totally ignoring the weightier aspects of the law.

Modern Christianity follows a similar path of destruction by focusing on the superficial and cosmetic aspects of Christianity - mouth worship, singing of hymns, intensive bible study, while the core teachings of Christ of brotherly love and charitable works are frowned upon and discouraged.

Weightier matters of the teachings of Christ .. you teach nothing of that.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Grace therefore and the sacrifice of Jesus, according to your doctrine is for Christians only. Obviously the teachings of Paul flew over your head. The Pharisees were convinced that they had a monopoly on God and the Gentiles needed to follow the law of Moses in order to be saved. Modern Christianity follows a similar path of destruction by focusing on the s ...[text shortened]... ore teachings of Christ of brotherly love and charitable works are frowned upon and discouraged.

What are the names of these groups that frown upon and discourage brotherly love and charitable works? They must be cult groups.

Originally posted by Rajk999

Grace therefore and the sacrifice of Jesus, according to your doctrine is for Christians only. Obviously the teachings of Paul flew over your head.

Let me say this as succinctly and frankly as possible.

I know the New Testament better than you do.
What Paul taught about grace did not go over my head.
But my appreciation of grace could of course be much more deepened.

The Pharisees were convinced that they had a monopoly on God and the Gentiles needed to follow the law of Moses in order to be saved. Their focus was on the rituals and the simidimi petty shallow aspects of their teachings, totally ignoring the weightier aspects of the law.

I don't completely agree with this.
And I don't see its relevance yet.

Modern Christianity follows ...

Okay stop right there.
You are talking to me, sonship.
Let's get this straight up front.
Deal with me here. You're talking with me.

Don't tell me all about Modern Christianity this and that and the other.

You and me.

... the core teachings of Christ of brotherly love and charitable works are frowned upon and discouraged.

Weightier matters of the teachings of Christ .. you teach nothing of that.

I have to suspend now. We will talk latter.

Originally posted by RJHinds
What are the names of these groups that frown upon and discourage brotherly love and charitable works? They must be cult groups.

Surprised you have to ask seeing we had so much discussion on this in the past

Originally posted by sonship

Grace therefore and the sacrifice of Jesus, according to your doctrine is for Christians only. Obviously the teachings of Paul flew over your head.

Let me say this as succinctly and frankly as possible.

I know the New Testament better than you do.
What Paul taught about grace did not go over my head.
But my appreciation of grace ...[text shortened]... f Christ .. you teach nothing of that. [/quote]

I have to suspend now. We will talk latter.

You statement that you know the new testament better than than I says it all.
You knowledge a not a virtue
You are a pharisee and you do not accept the teachings of Christ.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Surprised you have to ask seeing we had so much discussion on this in the past

So they are cult groups. Okay. 😏

Originally posted by Rajk999

You statement that you know the new testament better than than I says it all.

It was not intended to say it all. It was intended to be my honest reply to you saying the teaching of Paul on grace went over my head.

No, I have lived in grace, as it says -

" ... exhorting and testifying fully the this is the true grace of God; enter into this grace and stand in it." ( 1 Peter 5:12)

I cannot live without this grace.
The teaching of grace of Christ has not gone over my head.
It is rather with my innermost spirit -

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit" (Phil. 4:23)

Do you love the Lord Jesus Christ?
Do you exalt the law above Christ?

"Grace be with all those who love our Lord Jesus Christ in incorruptibility. (Eph. 6:24)

You knowledge a not a virtue

What the Scripture said was to ADD to your knowledge VIRTUES of "self-control ...endurance, godliness, brotherly love, and love (See 2 Peter 1:5 - 7)

It was not a bragging. It was I think a simple fact. The teaching of grace has not gone over my head. I know the New Testament, I am pretty sure, better than you do.

I would that you DID know it and lived it better and deeper. Then I could get much help from you.

Right now, You are not clear about some things.
supply

You are a pharisee and you do not accept the teachings of Christ.

Identify the teaching of Christ I do not accept or retract the accusation. I will forgive you for speaking recklessly.

What teaching of Christ do I reject ?

Talking about something going over someone's head? It appears that all I shared about being saved by grace for good works prepared by God that we should walk in them, went over your head.

I did not just stop at Eph. 2:8,9 but I went on to verse 10 -

"For we are His masterpiece, created in Christ Jesus ... FOR GOOD WORKS. ... which God prepared beforehand in order that we would WALK IN THEM."

It seems that you are so automatically dedicated to your talking points that this part of my explanation just went right over YOUR head.

The assurance of eternal salvation is the proper foundation upon which to go on to walk according to the new creation in the life and works included in the divine nature of the life implanted within the Christian. We must abide in this "organic" union.

Only Jesus Christ is absolute for the will of the Father.
So we have to identify with Him, abide in Him, remain in fellowship with Him, and walk in Him.

"Enter into this grace and stand in it." said Peter.