Abiogenesis and evolution: James Tour

@kellyjay said
It doesn't matter what he is, does it matter what your views are when it comes to science or does it matter that you get it right whatever it is you are talking about? Take the views about God to the Spiritual Forum.

Isn’t your Dr Tour supporting a “spiritual” viewpoint of creation?

@soothfast said
Quit using a YouTube video as a ballistic shield. State herein why dear Dr. Tour is still relevant to your case. Is there something else besides his assertions that organic molecules cannot form in space?

It is easy to produce some claim about an assertion that someone makes if you have never actually listened to them, don't plan to, and don't care if what you say is true or not.

@kellyjay said
It is easy to produce some claim about an assertion that someone makes if you have never actually listened to them, don't plan to, and don't care if what you say is true or not.

You are telling other posters who mention something related to the spiritual to “take it to spirituality”, so I’ll tell you what Kellyjay… if you can unequivocally state that your link to this Dr Tour has nothing to do with the religious version of creation then I’ll watch it.

So, has it?

@kellyjay said
It is easy to produce some claim about an assertion that someone makes if you have never actually listened to them, don't plan to, and don't care if what you say is true or not.

Again, how is Tour relevant to your case? Organic molecules abound in space. We know this, and it disproves an assertion made by Tour. So, you having undoubtedly watched the whole video yourself, you apparently think something he has said in it is still germane and has some validity. What is it?

Do you know what "bloviating" means?

@kellyjay said
It is easy to produce some claim about an assertion that someone makes if you have never actually listened to them, don't plan to, and don't care if what you say is true or not.

Right now you are saying that if we don't all piss away the better part of an hour of our time watching some damn video of yours, we have no standing to even presume to debate you. This is lazy and cynical on your part. If you truly understand the message of the video, you should be able to relay that message in words on this forum. One claim made by Tour in the video is apparently already discredited, so what else you got?

I know all about the "debate" tactic where one side barrages the other with endless hours-long videos, so as to peremptorily saddle the opposition with the "burden of proof" and claim the high ground based on the "authority" of the videos. We have a language. Use it.

@soothfast said
Again, how is Tour relevant to your case? Organic molecules abound in space. We know this, and it disproves an assertion made by Tour. So, you having undoubtedly watched the whole video yourself, you apparently think something he has said in it is still germane and has some validity. What is it?

Do you know what "bloviating" means?

Produce a quote where what you and others was actually said, if you can’t then that just proves my point. It is easy to claim anything if the truth doesn’t matter to you. If you don’t speak to what he said in the context he said it, what is the point of any claim you have in this discussion.

@moonbus said
Organic molecules have been detected in a distant galaxy:

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/06/06/world/webb-telescope-distant-organic-molecules-scn/index.html

We can put Prof. Tour to bed now; his claim that organic molecules are improbable is well and truly refuted.

Produce the quote from Tour that you claim can be put to bed, or is this one of those things where you make a claim without a real cause and can not back it up. Nonetheless you make the claim anyway because you know you you will just fade into the background never defending your baseless charge.

@kellyjay said
Produce the quote from Tour that you claim can be put to bed, or is this one of those things where you make a claim without a real cause and can not back it up. Nonetheless you make the claim anyway because you know you you will just fade into the background never defending your baseless charge.

Is Dr Tour promoting a spiritual angle to the creation of life?

@kellyjay said
Produce a quote where what you and others was actually said, if you can’t then that just proves my point. It is easy to claim anything if the truth doesn’t matter to you. If you don’t speak to what he said in the context he said it, what is the point of any claim you have in this discussion.

If you can't explain how Tour lends credence to your position, I can only assume that it is because you either don't understand what he's talking about, or he's now fully discredited. Have you heard the old saying that you don't truly understand something unless you can explain it to someone?

So you're just talking through your hat, then?

@kellyjay said
Produce the quote.

"Enzymes check it, and if it's not right another enzyme comes and ..."


False. Factually in error. Enzymes do not "check" anything. 11:16 minutes in. I don't need to look at the rest. He anthropomorphizes from the gitgo.

@moonbus said
"Enzymes check it, and if it's not right another enzyme comes and ..."


False. Factually in error. Enzymes do not "check" anything. 11:16 minutes in. I don't need to look at the rest. He anthropomorphizes from the gitgo.

"Both positive and negative feedback loops describe the effect of an intermediate or product of a metabolic pathway on an enzyme that participates in the linked series of reactions. Thus, any metabolite, regardless of how far down the pathway it is, has the potential to be an allosteric regulator and participate in a feedback loop."

Explain the proper means by which that occurs since you seem to be at odds with everyone.

@soothfast said
If you can't explain how Tour lends credence to your position, I can only assume that it is because you either don't understand what he's talking about, or he's now fully discredited. Have you heard the old saying that you don't truly understand something unless you can explain it to someone?

So you're just talking through your hat, then?

Thought so.

@kellyjay said
"Both positive and negative feedback loops describe the effect of an intermediate or product of a metabolic pathway on an enzyme that participates in the linked series of reactions. Thus, any metabolite, regardless of how far down the pathway it is, has the potential to be an allosteric regulator and participate in a feedback loop."

Explain the proper means by which that occurs since you seem to be at odds with everyone.

Do you have evidence of another process for the creation of life other than a random association of molecules?

@soothfast said
If you can't explain how Tour lends credence to your position, I can only assume that it is because you either don't understand what he's talking about, or he's now fully discredited. Have you heard the old saying that you don't truly understand something unless you can explain it to someone?

So you're just talking through your hat, then?

"Organic molecules abound in space." Where did Tour say anything about this that suggests these things don't exist? You cannot back up your claims but instead want to just spout off something you cannot back as true and leave it out there as if it is. I put the link on to discuss it, but so far you haven't, your making things up out of thin air as if they had anything to do with the content is all you have done. Difficult to explain what your imagination conjures up, but if you actually address some of the points made by Tour or even mine would be acceptable.

@kellyjay said
"Both positive and negative feedback loops describe the effect of an intermediate or product of a metabolic pathway on an enzyme that participates in the linked series of reactions. Thus, any metabolite, regardless of how far down the pathway it is, has the potential to be an allosteric regulator and participate in a feedback loop."

Explain the proper means by which that occurs since you seem to be at odds with everyone.

That is the proper explanation.