"Twelve Questions to Ask an Atheist"

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Your "explicit atheist" working definition contains a greater measure of clarity than I've seen in this forum.
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"If God didn't exist, what possible difference would it make whether or not people put their faith in Him?" -JV

Revisited:

If God does exist, what possible difference would it make whether or not people put their faith in Him to those who don't?

I'm surprised you haven't seen it before. This is one of those threads that crops up on a regular basis. I'm sure I've made the exact same argument in this forum at least a half dozen times in the past.

In and of itself, it makes absolutely no difference to me whether anyone believes in god or not. What does make a difference is the type of actions people take based on that belief.

Originally posted by rwingett
I'm surprised you haven't seen it before. This is one of those threads that crops up on a regular basis. I'm sure I've made the exact same argument in this forum at least a half dozen times in the past.

In and of itself, it makes absolutely no difference to me whether anyone believes in god or not. What does make a difference is the type of actions people take based on that belief.

He has seen it before, he started a thread within the last few months with that exact question word-for-word, and has posted that question in other threads several times since then, so he clearly has that thread in mind whenever he asks it. Within that thread, the question was answered.

GB, here again is a, hopefully crystal clear, answer:
What people believe affects what they do. What people do affects others, including you and me. If their beliefs are ill-founded, eg based on the existence of a deity which does not in fact exist, the actions that are influenced by those beliefs can very easily be harmful. For example, violence towards people of other faiths such as the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland, or religiously motivated wars.

Now could you please stop asking the same, asinine, question.

--- Penguin.

Originally posted by Penguin
He has seen it before, he started a thread within the last few months with that exact question word-for-word, and has posted that question in other threads several times since then, so he clearly has that thread in mind whenever he asks it. Within that thread, the question was answered.

GB, here again is a, hopefully crystal clear, answer:
[b]What ...[text shortened]... motivated wars.

Now could you please stop asking the same, asinine, question.

--- Penguin.

I was referring to the topic of infants being born as (implicit) atheists. Although there are no shortage of topics that get brought up in this forum repeatedly.

Originally posted by rwingett
I was referring to the topic of infants being born as (implicit) atheists. Although there are no shortage of topics that get brought up in this forum repeatedly.

Thank you.

Originally posted by Penguin
He has seen it before, he started a thread within the last few months with that exact question word-for-word, and has posted that question in other threads several times since then, so he clearly has that thread in mind whenever he asks it. Within that thread, the question was answered.

GB, here again is a, hopefully crystal clear, answer:
[b]What ...[text shortened]... motivated wars.

Now could you please stop asking the same, asinine, question.

--- Penguin.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"To be an atheist doesn't require choosing anything, if you never hear about gods from others,
and the idea doesn't occur to you then you are still an atheist." -googlefudge (Page 4)

If someone was considering becoming an atheist and open to personal suasion from you, what benefits would you describe?

Originally posted by rwingett
I was referring to the topic of infants being born as (implicit) atheists. Although there are no shortage of topics that get brought up in this forum repeatedly.

Sorry, your answer made no sense when applied tho the question of whether newborns are implicitly atheist and it made perfect sense when applied to that other question that GB asked (again) in the post that you were replying to.

Apologies if I misunderstood the intended topic of your answer.

Penguin

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
[b]"To be an atheist doesn't require choosing anything, if you never hear about gods from others,
and the idea doesn't occur to you then you are still an atheist." -googlefudge (Page 4)

If someone was considering becoming an atheist and open to personal suasion from you, what benefits would you describe?[/b]

You're not asking me the question, but I'd like to give my answer nonetheless.

Although it might be possible to see a positive side to being an atheist, atheism itself gives you nothing.

It makes no promises, it grants no wishes, it does not shield you from harm, it offers no afterlife, it offers no happiness, it does not bring people together, it brings no salvation, no hope, no luck, no joy, no bliss, no justice, no answers, no clarity, no friendship, no love, no comfort.

You get nothing from atheism.

Which is problematic for theists, because theists are very greedy people. They want to get stuff. It is what attracts them to their religion.

Originally posted by rwingett
I was referring to the topic of infants being born as (implicit) atheists. Although there are no shortage of topics that get brought up in this forum repeatedly.

Indeed, the topic of how topics get brought up repeatedly has itself been brought up repeatedly, but has the topic of how the topic of how topics get brought up repeatedly ever been broached before?

Originally posted by Soothfast
Indeed, the topic of how topics get brought up repeatedly has itself
been brought up repeatedly, but has the topic of how the topic of how
topics get brought up repeatedly ever been broached before?

It has now!
YouTube

Originally posted by rwingett
I'm afraid it is you who is wrong. Explicit atheism requires that one be capable of conceptualizing a god. Implicit atheism does not.

Theism requires that one be capable of conceptualizing what a god is. Hence infants cannot be theists. And everyone who does not self-identify as a theist is, by default, an atheist. If they are capable of conceptualizing ...[text shortened]... hey would be an explicit atheist. If they are incapable, then they would be an implicit atheist.

Not sure how you're missing the contradiction, but it exists nonetheless.

I think it has to do with your definition of atheism. Most people you ask on the street will define atheism as a rejection of God, god, god(s).
They won't flower it up, flower it over, massage and carefully measure their words in an effort to make it into a 'lack of belief,' or anything other than what it is--- what it always has been: a rejection of the notion of the divine.

Go back to even its original meaning, when the ancients labeled the Jews and later the Christians with the moniker, and you will find the same concept employed. The Jews/Christians had rejected the pantheon of mythological gods in favor of what they called the Living God... yet they were called 'atheists' on the basis of their rejection of the cultural customs in relation to the gods.

The question of the divine cannot be conceptualized by any being which has not achieved self-awareness, and since atheism requires a choice, there exists neither belief nor disbelief--- neither atheism nor atheism.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH

Most people you ask on the street will define atheism as a rejection of God, god, god(s).

I doubt it. But if they are ignorant they might.

You could also survey people on whether a tomato is a fruit or vegetable.
The majority answer will have no effect on the truth.

An atheist is someone who is not a theist. It is quite simple. It has nothing
to do with "rejecting god".

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Not sure how you're missing the contradiction, but it exists nonetheless.

I think it has to do with your definition of atheism. Most people you ask on the street will define atheism as a rejection of God, god, god(s).
They won't flower it up, flower it over, massage and carefully measure their words in an effort to make it into a 'lack of belie ...[text shortened]... ism requires a choice, there exists neither belief nor disbelief--- neither atheism nor atheism.

a=without. theism=the belief in one or more gods. Thus, atheism=to be without a belief in any gods.

I couldn't care less what the uninformed opinion of the average man in the street is. Atheism means to be without belief in any gods. It is not restricted to the rejection of said gods. Therefore implicit atheists (infants and whatnot) are still atheists.

It seems to be the overwhelming desire of theists to restrict the definition of 'atheist' as narrowly as possible, thereby limiting it to 'explicit' 'hard' atheists. Those who are aware of the concept of god, and those who claim knowledge of his non-existence. While there are certainly some who fit into both of those categories, atheism is by no means confined to them. The term encompasses implicit/explicit atheism, soft/hard atheism, and every logical combination thereof.

Originally posted by rwingett
a=without. theism=the belief in one or more gods. Thus, atheism=to be without a belief in any gods.

I couldn't care less what the uninformed opinion of the average man in the street is. Atheism means to be without belief in any gods. It is not restricted to the rejection of said gods. Therefore implicit atheists (infants and whatnot) are still atheists. ...[text shortened]... encompasses implicit/explicit atheism, soft/hard atheism, and every logical combination thereof.

"Atheism means to be without belief in any gods." rwingett

Makes sense to me; however, an atheist view that "belief" [faith] or choice
[accept/reject] isn't involved also prevails, i.e., an atheist at/from birth.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Atheism means to be without belief in any gods." rwingett

Makes sense to me; however, an atheist view that "belief" [faith] or choice
[accept/reject] isn't involved also prevails, i.e., an atheist at/from birth.

Yes. That would be an implicit atheist.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Atheism means to be without belief in any gods." rwingett

Makes sense to me; however, an atheist view that "belief" [faith] or choice
[accept/reject] isn't involved also prevails, i.e., an atheist at/from birth.

Makes sense to me;

Glad to hear it.

however, an atheist view that "belief" [faith] or choice
[accept/reject] isn't involved also prevails, i.e., an atheist at/from birth.

Well the definition, which you just accepted above when you said "Makes sense to me; " does not require the involvement of those concepts. It allows them but it does not require them. In the same way, it allows but does not require a lack of belief in other supernatural concepts. Thus there can be atheists who believe in Buddhism, ghosts, water divining and homeopathy.

Penguin