The Heart

Originally posted by @thinkofone
Seems like many who believe in OSAS think that their salvation is assured. Given what you've said here, it seems it would be presumptuous for any of them to think that they are in a position to judge whether or not they themselves would be judged as "Believing in the heart [with] a sincere, committed, self-sacrificing belief". Seems like none can know for sure.

I’ve already said how one can know if they are saved.

Originally posted by @romans1009
I’ve already said how one can know if they are saved.

That's because we have such a clear view of reality.

Originally posted by @eladar
That's because we have such a clear view of reality.

I’m talking about how one can know if one (the same person) is saved, not someone else.

Originally posted by @romans1009
I’ve already said how one can know if they are saved.

I know. And I'm saying that it seems presumptuous for any of them think that they are in a position to judge themselves as being saved.

Especially with Jesus saying that He will judge. Evidently you believe that individuals are able to judge themselves as well as Jesus is able.

Plus I've come across quite a few - both Christian and non-Christian alike - whose self-image does not line up with reality.

Originally posted by @thinkofone
I know. And I'm saying that it seems presumptuous for any of them think that they are in a position to judge themselves as being saved.

Especially with Jesus saying that He will judge. Evidently you believe that individuals are able to judge themselves as well as Jesus is able.

Plus I've come across quite a few - both Christian and non-Christian alike - whose self-image does not line up with reality.

Where does it say in the Bible that Jesus judges whether individuals are saved or not?

Originally posted by @romans1009
I’m talking about how one can know if one (the same person) is saved, not someone else.

That's what I was talking about too. Do you think you have perfect perception of yourself?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Shakespeare interlude:

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

(Hamlet)

Yes, this is my big complaint about some Christians. They'll stand up and present a good face and talk the talk about how Jesus is all about love, and then sit down and write a letter to their congressman asking why he supports giving the Christian's "hard earned tax money" to blacks and single women who "don't want to work".

Jesus knew these people as the hypocrites they are.

Originally posted by @suzianne
Yes, this is my big complaint about some Christians. They'll stand up and present a good face and talk the talk about how Jesus is all about love, and then sit down and write a letter to their congressman asking why he supports giving the Christian's "hard earned tax money" to blacks and single women who "don't want to work".

Jesus knew these people as the hypocrites they are.

What does a Satanist like you know about Christian love?

Originally posted by @eladar
That's what I was talking about too. Do you think you have perfect perception of yourself?

In all things? No. In terms of Romans 8:16 and how I lived my life pre-salvation compared to post-salvation, absolutely.

Originally posted by @romans1009
In all things? No. In terms of Romans 8:16 and how I lived my life pre-salvation compared to post-salvation, absolutely.

Well you might be right and you might be wrong.

Originally posted by @eladar
Well you might be right and you might be wrong.

Who’s in a better position to know?

Originally posted by @romans1009
Who’s in a better position to know?

God.

If Paul would not judge his own salvation, why should we?

Originally posted by @eladar
God.

If Paul would not judge his own salvation, why should we?

<<God.>>

And we’re back to Romans 8:16.

<<If Paul would not judge his own salvation, why should we?>>

What’s the verse where you think Paul said/did that?

Originally posted by @romans1009
<<God.>>

And we’re back to Romans 8:16.

<<If Paul would not judge his own salvation, why should we?>>

What’s the verse where you think Paul said/did that?

1 Corinthians 4

Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.

Originally posted by @eladar
1 Corinthians 4

Now it is required that those who have been given a trust must prove faithful. 3 I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the ...[text shortened]... and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.

Why do you think that passage refers to salvation? We know believers go to the Judgment Seat of Christ but that is not to determine their eternal destination. Likewise, unbelievers go to the Great White Throne Judgment, but that is not to determine their eternal destination either.

To believe that Paul is referring to salvation in that passage would cause other passages that he wrote (Romans 8:16 off the top of my head) to be in direct conflict.