Suzanne’s Post, Fact, Fiction, Christian? Let’s Come Together!

@kellyjay said
If you are maintaining your disbelief by rejecting what may cause you to change your mind they are no different from one another, one simply represses/suppresses truth to maintain your stance.

There you go again: referring to your personal subjective opinions about supernatural things "truth".

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You simply haven't read my posts correctly. Not all atheists have rejected God out of hand. I know that suits your argument to say that, but it simply isn't true.

What of an atheist who has seriously explored religion (and not rejected out of hand) but still comes away not believing in God?

I have read your posts, and I am not talking about a religion when I speak about Christianity those that are, seeing only people in it, miss it completely. Anyone can be devout and do all the right things and be as far from God as anyone else including an Atheist. Religion without God is as void of God as any Atheist with respect to Christ, may as well be a country club.

From inside any dead religious faith (without Jesus Christ) speaking even good doctrine it is void of who is required, with out God it’s just talking and doing religious exercises in Jesus name.

So you comparing Christ to Santa may make sense if you have only seen dead people walking around doing things in Jesus name. The term being dead in our sins describes us in this life, not just after we die.

@kellyjay said
From inside any dead religious faith (without Jesus Christ) speaking even good doctrine it is void of who is required, with out God it’s just talking and doing religious exercises in Jesus name.

What evidence here at RHP is there that your beliefs do not constitute "dead religious faith"?

@kellyjay said
So you comparing Christ to Santa may make sense if you have only seen dead people walking around doing things in Jesus name. The term being dead in our sins describes us in this life, not just after we die.

Who is it you are claiming has "seen dead people walking around doing things in Jesus's name"?

@kellyjay said
I have read your posts, and I am not talking about a religion when I speak about Christianity those that are, seeing only people in it, miss it completely. Anyone can be devout and do all the right things and be as far from God as anyone else including an Atheist. Religion without God is as void of God as any Atheist with respect to Christ, may as well be a country club.

Religion without God is as void of God as any Atheist with respect to Christ, may as well be a country club.

So, it's not even 'better than nothing'?

This is not a very strong endorsement - on your part - of the code for living that Jesus offered everyone [and not just those who believe in him as a divine being].

Where does it say in the NT that only those who believe that he rose from the dead will have everlasting life and not those who live their lives guided by his moral teachings?

@kellyjay said
I have read your posts, and I am not talking about a religion when I speak about Christianity those that are, seeing only people in it, miss it completely. Anyone can be devout and do all the right things and be as far from God as anyone else including an Atheist. Religion without God is as void of God as any Atheist with respect to Christ, may as well be a country club.
...[text shortened]... gs in Jesus name. The term being dead in our sins describes us in this life, not just after we die.

Why bother responding to my posts if you are not going to make any effort to address what I have written? You are wasting both our time.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Why bother responding to my posts if you are not going to make any effort to address what I have written? You are wasting both our time.

I responded maybe not to your liking.

@divegeester said
Yes.

Nobody gets burnt alive for eternity.

Not what I said, by a long shot.

Jesus saves even those who reject him? Those who turn down his offer?

Come on, don't be shy.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Is disbelief the same as rejection?

At first glance, I'd say yes.

Your disbelief prevents you from taking him up on his offer of being saved.

It's as if one stood on the bank of a river and someone is in the river drowning. You extend a pole or branch or a rope towards the one drowning and you say, "Quick, grab hold!" And he says, no, I do not believe you exist, I'm seeing things, or whatever. He rejects the save. Now I know one might still try to save this man, but it certainly doesn't look good if he won't even grab the lifeline.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Have 'you' rejected Santa Claus? Have 'you' rejected the Tooth fairy?

If I accepted God existed, but rejected him, fair enough. But If I genuinely believed (as I do) that God did not exist, then there is nothing there to reject. - It could perhaps be argued that I have rejected the notion of God, but to reject God directly I would have to believe there was something there to reject. (Which I don't).

I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. So yes, I reject them. They can promise the world to me, but I'm not believing it, and so I'm not going to receive it.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Why bother responding to my posts if you are not going to make any effort to address what I have written? You are wasting both our time.

Well knowing our conversation topics are on par with the tooth fairy with you, I plan on being more selective.

@suzianne said
At first glance, I'd say yes.

Your disbelief prevents you from taking him up on his offer of being saved.

It's as if one stood on the bank of a river and someone is in the river drowning. You extend a pole or branch or a rope towards the one drowning and you say, "Quick, grab hold!" And he says, no, I do not believe you exist, I'm seeing things, or whatever. He reje ...[text shortened]... t still try to save this man, but it certainly doesn't look good if he won't even grab the lifeline.

At first glance perhaps, but look a little closer and one is based on something out of one's control (as we can not force ourselves to believe something) while the other is based on choice.

Whereas I can choose to accept or reject something I perceive as real, I can not choose whether or not to believe in something I am fundamentally unconvinced by.

@suzianne said
I don't believe in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. So yes, I reject them. They can promise the world to me, but I'm not believing it, and so I'm not going to receive it.

They can't promise the world to you (in any meaningful sense) because they are unreal to you. (Due to your disbelief). Only real things (that you believe in) can offer something you either accept or reject.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
At first glance perhaps, but look a little closer and one is based on something out of one's control (as we can not force ourselves to believe something) while the other is based on choice.

Whereas I can choose to accept or reject something I perceive as real, I can not choose whether or not to believe in something I am fundamentally unconvinced by.

If you are talking about a choice to believe something you know is true, then it isn't a belief, no belief is required. If your understanding is faulty and what you accept by choice is about an error, then your choice to believe puts you in error.

@kellyjay said
If you are talking about a choice to believe something you know is true, then it isn't a belief, no belief is required. If your understanding is faulty and what you accept by choice is about an error, then your choice to believe puts you in error.

I was clear in what I posted. I'm afraid you are on your own in understanding it.