Religion is flawed because man is flawed

@chessataxia said
Cause I said so! 😡

But you also said you were an “agnostic” when you are actually a theist.

@chessataxia said
Finally started a fight...

Good job you’re back I guess.

@chessataxia said
I thought I was agnostic but it appears I am a theist.

Do you believe in Jesus as your saviour?

@fmf said
No, KellyJay, I am not claiming that your subjective opinions are NOT "objective truths" because I DON'T believe in them; I claiming that your opinions are NOT "objective truths" because they are subjective.

Fine, a distinction without a difference; I acknowledge all you ever had was a subjective acknowledgment of some truth, making it no more eternally important than getting a math problem correct. You figure out you're mistaken with math, you correct, and nothing is better, nothing is worse, nothing about the reality of the universe changes. If God isn't real, every belief system is no different from a math problem where we are coming up with the wrong sum. If Christianity is true, then there is nothing more important than anything else in the universe, and all of that revolves around God being real, not a subjective fact but the prime reality; God going to a cross, dying for us, and rising from the dead as historically true.

Christianity has God dying for us so we can live with Him; the whole point is it isn't a self-help club, a place for entertainment, a place to share ideas; if you miss the reality of God, you miss the whole thing, the best part. You have missed it, you never found it, and all you got now is suggesting no one can find what isn't there. Which I remind you is purely a subjective claim, which is all you have ever had; you called yourself something you now acknowledge couldn't be true, that Christ was your Lord and Savior, you have reduced Christ to something made up between the ears of man, so you are left with making claims no one else can know this objectively in their lives as you now acknowledge Him in yours.

I don't deny you made the claims; many make that claim; for you and them, it is nothing but a claim, a subjective truth with no reality in it. The reality of Christ isn't real in their lives as He never was in yours even though you once said it because now you deny it. Truth doesn't change with time or with how we view it, it is, and that is that no matter what we think about it.

@chessataxia said
Finally started a fight...

Took a minute but we got er done son.

Hardly this conversation has been ongoing for years.

@kellyjay said
Fine, a distinction without a difference; I acknowledge all you ever had was a subjective acknowledgment of some truth, making it no more eternally important than getting a math problem correct. You figure out you're mistaken with math, you correct, and nothing is better, nothing is worse, nothing about the reality of the universe changes. If God isn't real, every belief sys ...[text shortened]... t change with time or with how we view it, it is, and that is that no matter what we think about it.

To suggest that the contrast between the meanings of subjective and objective are a distinction without a difference is nonsense.

@kellyjay said
If God isn't real, every belief system is no different from a math problem where we are coming up with the wrong sum. If Christianity is true, then there is nothing more important than anything else in the universe, and all of that revolves around God being real, not a subjective fact but the prime reality; God going to a cross, dying for us, and rising from the dead as historically true.

I am aware of what the tenets of your faith are.

@kellyjay said
Christianity has God dying for us so we can live with Him; the whole point is it isn't a self-help club, a place for entertainment, a place to share ideas; if you miss the reality of God, you miss the whole thing, the best part. You have missed it, you never found it, and all you got now is suggesting no one can find what isn't there. Which I remind you is purely a subjectiv ...[text shortened]... ing claims no one else can know this objectively in their lives as you now acknowledge Him in yours.

I used to believe this stuff, just like you do.

@fmf said
KellyJay uses the adjective "objective" as a kind of intensifier word and adds it to whatever "truths" he firmly believes in. It is one of his flaws, linguistically and philosophically speaking.

We all look at the universe and think it to be so; reality is questioned, the objects in it are what we question, and are our beliefs in something real? I cannot recall who said this, but if we were talking about a duck. All the truth surrounding the duck has to do with the duck, regardless of what we think about him. We believe certain things about the duck, they would be based on the duck, and what makes us correct in our beliefs about the duck would be as we rightly describe the facts of the duck, if we error we are not correctly describing duck any longer.

@fmf said
I used to believe this stuff, just like you do.

Yes, I've heard you say that now you don't; it was nothing but something you did in Jesus' name, only.

@fmf said
I am aware of what the tenets of your faith are.

So what? It never was a reality; it was always a mental thing for you, nothing more. Experiencing color and hearing about it are two different things. Not too much different for a color-blind person always hearing about color having a small clue from what they see until they get glasses that correct their blindness. After that, they know it isn't only a theory once it becomes a reality.

@kellyjay said
We all look at the universe and think it to be so; reality is questioned, the objects in it are what we question, and are our beliefs in something real? I cannot recall who said this, but if we were talking about a duck. All the truth surrounding the duck has to do with the duck, regardless of what we think about him. We believe certain things about the duck, they would be b ...[text shortened]... rightly describe the facts of the duck, if we error we are not correctly describing duck any longer.

Constantly referring to your subjective opinions about reality as "objective" is borderline low-integrity, KellyJay.

@kellyjay said
It never was a reality; it was always a mental thing for you, nothing more.

Faith is only a "mental thing" for everyone.

@fmf said
To suggest that the contrast between the meanings of subjective and objective are a distinction without a difference is nonsense.

Your view of them is concerning this conversation.

@fmf said
Faith is only a "mental thing" for everyone.

Yes, because we live in a universe that we have we have not made, we do not hold it together by the power of our thoughts; its reality remains so no matter what we think about it. The most humorous example I heard describe this was about gravity; it is real; we don't know what it is, but we know the effects, and they don't change simply because we believe in it; if that were true, our faith in it would affect everyone, people would start floating off whenever they had doubts about. We would always be screaming at people, "Just believe in gravity," as they float off screaming.