17 Jul 17
Originally posted by dj2beckerNo. I disagree. That's not what the Pharisees were doing. You do not understand the point Jesus is making
Would you agree that following a set of laws 'makes someone appear to be clean on the outside'? This passage agrees with what I'm saying, I was the one that quoted it to you a while ago.
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17 Jul 17
Originally posted by Rajk999This contradicts your previous post where you said, "The Pharisees followed laws that helped them to appear righteous from the outside..."
No. I disagree. That's not what the Pharisees were doing. You do not understand the point Jesus is making
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Rajk999 talks much about obeying the commandments of Jesus.
The first commandment of Jesus I think I received from Jesus was to believe in Jesus.
That was over 40 years ago.
The last commandment I received from Jesus was just about the same thing - Believe in Jesus. It is to believe in Jesus to be everything I am not. It is to believe in Jesus to be everything I need.
I have written before and repeat it again. As we received Christ Jesus the Lord, SO we should continue to WALK in Him.
"As therefore you have received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in Him." (Col. 2:7)
We are saved by believing Jesus can be whatever we need before God.
We walk in Jesus the same way, believing that what we do not have Jesus IS.
Jesus we can trust to live in us and out from us and for us.
17 Jul 17
Originally posted by sonshipThe devils believe too, Judas Iscariot believed as well.
Rajk999 talks much about obeying the commandments of Jesus.
The first commandment of Jesus I think I received from Jesus was to believe in Jesus.
That was over 40 years ago.
The last commandment I received from Jesus was just about the same thing - Believe in Jesus. It is to believe in Jesus to be everything I am not. It is to believe in Jesus to be e ...[text shortened]... t what we do not have Jesus IS.
Jesus we can trust to live in us and out from us and for us.
Ananias and Sapphira were born again believers with the Holy Spirit.
Lots of people in the time of Paul were believers and Paul called some heretics and other unsavory names.
Lots of believers. Lots of hearers, Lots of seeds sown. Lots of talkers
Many are called but few are chosen
Therefore -
A select class of people will form the Saints to rule with Christ in the 1000 yrs.
Those who do good works will be welcomed into the New Jerusalem at the end of the 1000 yr reign of Christ.
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18 Jul 17
1 edit
Originally posted by @rajk999The fact that some people claimed to believe and did evil things doesn't mean we don't have to believe.
The devils believe too, Judas Iscariot believed as well.
Ananias and Sapphira were born again believers with the Holy Spirit.
Lots of people in the time of Paul were believers and Paul called some heretics and other unsavory names.
Lots of believers. Lots of hearers, Lots of seeds sown. Lots of talkers
Many are called but few are chosen
Therefore - ...[text shortened]... o good works will be welcomed into the New Jerusalem at the end of the 1000 yr reign of Christ.
Believing in Jesus is not optional. He alone is the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except though Him. Believing that salvation is found in no other but Him is only the beginning. There is a long journey ahead once you decide to believe and follow Him.
18 Jul 17
Originally posted by @dj2beckerDid you miss the point?
The fact that some people claimed to believe and did evil things doesn't mean we don't have to believe.
Believing in Jesus is not optional. He alone is the way the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father except though Him. Believing that salvation is found in no other but Him is only the beginning. There is a long journey ahead once you decide to believe and follow Him.
Believing [in the sense of 'thinking'] counts for nothing
Believing [in the sense of doing] counts for something.
18 Jul 17
Originally posted by @dj2beckerI never used that word 'optional'. You cannot even quote me properly.
You miss the point when you say believing in Jesus is optional.
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18 Jul 17
1 edit
Originally posted by @rajk999You said an atheist can be saved without believing in Jesus but only by doing good works, that implies believing in Jesus is not necessary. If you now feel that you want to withdraw that claim feel free to do so.
I never used that word 'optional'. You cannot even quote me properly.
18 Jul 17
Originally posted by @dj2beckerWell here is how things will play out. God has an elect group of people and God has lined up eternal torment for another group. Somewhere in between is all of us I would imagine as most likely none of us are in these extreme groups. Here they are:
You said an atheist can be saved without believing in Jesus but only by doing good works, that implies believing in Jesus is not necessary. If you now feel that you want to withdraw that claim feel free to do so.
1. Gods Elect - the Saints who rule with Christ
2. Average Christians
3. Good people in general who dont know of Christ
4. Christians who abandoned the teachings of Christ
5. Satan and his angels
So here is the deal. There are some Christians who are going to be in a worse off position than some people who dont know of Christ. So maybe you could focus your energy on those.
If you want some references let me know
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22 Jul 17
1 edit
Originally posted by @rajk999Would you mind providing scripture to support your opinions? Where does the Bible say that people people who are 'good' according to God's standards exist who do not know Christ?
Well here is how things will play out. God has an elect group of people and God has lined up eternal torment for another group. Somewhere in between is all of us I would imagine as most likely none of us are in these extreme groups. Here they are:
1. Gods Elect - the Saints who rule with Christ
2. Average Christians
3. Good people in general who dont ...[text shortened]... rist. So maybe you could focus your energy on those.
If you want some references let me know
22 Jul 17
Originally posted by @dj2beckerAccording to Jesus, nobody is good.
Would you mind providing scripture to support your opinions? Where does the Bible say that people people who are 'good' according to God's standards exist who do not know Christ?
Mark 10:17-21 New King James Version
17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” 18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother" 20 And he answered and said to Him, “Teacher, all these things I have kept from my youth.” 21 Then Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “One thing you lack: Go your way, sell whatever you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”
22 Jul 17
Originally posted by @dj2beckerIn order to do works of faith you must believe. It is God's good works that matter, if Jesus
You miss the point when you say believing in Jesus is optional.
isn't being glorified to what end are our good works, for purpose?
2 Thessalonians 1 ESV
11 To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his calling and may fulfill every resolve for good and every work of faith by his power, 12 so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
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22 Jul 17
Originally posted by @leunammiExactly what I had in mind, only God is good.
According to Jesus, nobody is good.
Mark 10:17-21 New King James Version
17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?” 18 So Jesus said to him, [b]“Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.19 You know the comma ...[text shortened]... to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, take up the cross, and follow Me.”[/b]