Jesus Christ...

Originally posted by whodey
He apparently is immortal even though Islam claims him to be a mere man.🙄

He was a man.

Originally posted by Orange Peel
Paul was one of them that Jesus appeared to, after his death.

Right. I know.

Originally posted by Orange Peel
He was a man.

True he came as a man but he is did not begin as a man (John 8:58) and did not remain dead as a man because he was ressurrected and ascended to the Father. Therefore, the description of Christ being a mere man is not wrong, rather, it is wanting. There was much more to him than that. He was also a prophet as well just as the Muslims say he was but there was much more to him than that. He was a teacher, he was a healer, he all things to all men. He was God's word made flesh and therefore part of who God is and was. (John 1:14)

Originally posted by whodey
He apparently is immortal even though Islam claims him to be a mere man.🙄

Did I say he is immortal. Every man die and he will die.

Actually The Quran said he didn't die on the cross because the man on the cross is not him. When did he die, or how it is another story..

Originally posted by jaywill
The Apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthain church that Christ appeared to 500 disciples at one time after His resurrection. He wrote that most of these were still alive at the time.

Do you have documentation that any one of these 500 some people came forward to testify that Paul was in error? Most of them were alive and could have easily countered Paul's l ...[text shortened]... here's your evidence that witnesses came forward to debunk Paul's supposed resurrection myth?

I didn't say he was not there after the cross. All what I said he didn't die on the cross, and he was not on the tomb. And he was alive all the time. So there is no problem for me that even 1000 saw him. The problem is did any one see him inside the tomb. Can you show me that in the Bible. I don't think so. Only one put him in the tomb and no one saw him go out. So you cann't make sure that he was the one on the cross. Specially he didn't admit that he is Jesus during his trial.

Originally posted by whodey
John 20:27 Then said he to Thomas, Reach hither your finger, and behold my hands, and reach hither your hand, and thrust it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said to him, My Lord and my GOD. Jesus said to him, Thomas, because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have beli ...[text shortened]... so ressurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ will all be made alive.

Where is the cross in this verse?

They thought he was did but he is not. Remember his hands was not hurt. there was no sign for crossification. So how can it be a prove that he was crossified.

Originally posted by jaywill
The Apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthain church that Christ appeared to 500 disciples at one time after His resurrection. He wrote that most of these were still alive at the time.

Do you have documentation that any one of these 500 some people came forward to testify that Paul was in error? Most of them were alive and could have easily countered Paul's l ...[text shortened]... here's your evidence that witnesses came forward to debunk Paul's supposed resurrection myth?

This is a truly weird argument. One would think that the lack of any documentation by the so-called witnesses supporting Paul's claim (if he made it; passage please?) would weaken it. Since he didn't name the specific 500, how exactly would they testify that Paul was in error?

Originally posted by jaywill
Heaven isn't mentioned in those verses. And some believers are [b]"saved yet so as through fire".

When it speaks of Christ judging the works of Christians it says that some will be saved yet so as through fire:

"If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire" (2 Cor. 3:15)

Your ...[text shortened]... being insulting.

So consider, was there something you wrote which was foolish?[/b]

Do any of what I said imply any of what you said. All what I said Jesus say that the one who say fool to others will be in Hill fire. Am I Wrong?

Originally posted by no1marauder
This is a truly weird argument. One would think that the lack of any documentation by the so-called witnesses supporting Paul's claim (if he made it; passage please?) would weaken it. Since he didn't name the specific 500, how exactly would they testify that Paul was in error?

No one in the Bible testify with Paul only Paul testify for himself. Althougth that is not accepted in the Old Testament because there should be at least two witnesses, and that is what Jesus said too, but all Christians accept what Paul said without asking for witnesses.

Originally posted by ahosyney
Where is the cross in this verse?

They thought he was did but he is not. Remember his hands was not hurt. there was no sign for crossification. So how can it be a prove that he was crossified.

Where does it say anywhere in the Bible that Christ was not crucified on the corss? Please show me. I can show you where it says Christ died on the cross, however.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished; and he bowed his head and gave up the ghost.....but when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his bones.....And after this Joseph of Arimathaea being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate have him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus. And there came also Nocodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a 100 pound weight. THey then took the body of Jesus, and bound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews to bury."

So you demand two witnesses? It appears you have two. What two witnesses say that Jesus did not die on the cross I wonder? Also, where did Christ recieve the wounds on the hands and in his side that Thomas touched if he, in fact, did not die on the cross? And if you say he had no wounds on his hands or his side, why then did Thomas say, "My Lord and my God", after having assessed his hands and side?

Originally posted by Orange Peel
How could one man be right and most everyone be wrong?

Was it really a just punnishment for Him to get whipped, beaten, humiliated and then hung out on the cross to die? How did it happen?

How could one man be right and most everyone be wrong?

Eh?

Was it really a just punnishment for Him to get whipped, beaten, humiliated and then hung out on the cross to die?

Not for Him it wasn't.

How did it happen?

Pretty much how most crucifixions of the era happened.

Originally posted by whodey
Where does it say anywhere in the Bible that Christ was not crucified on the corss? Please show me. I can show you where it says Christ died on the cross, however.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished; and he bowed his head and gave up the ghost.....but when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead alread ...[text shortened]... ide, why then did Thomas say, "My Lord and my God", after having assessed his hands and side?

I can't argue with you that it is mentioned several times in the Bible that he was crossified. It is mentioned every where in the New Testament.

But, when you look at these verses you will find no one who talk about the crossification was realy a witness for it. That is my point.

Also the man who was in trial and on the cross doesn't behave the same way as Jesus. When asked about his Identity (You must ask yourself why Jews asked him about his identity from the first place, he was a will know person) he never didn't say I'm Jesus, He said to anyone asked him the question "You say that..".

Jesus came to be a sacrifice although the man on the cross doesn't seem to be happy about being crossified.

Talking about the wounds in his body the scripture doesn't mention any wound in his hands, so it imply both meanings. And Tomas could make the same reaction in either cases.

Originally posted by whodey
Where does it say anywhere in the Bible that Christ was not crucified on the corss? Please show me. I can show you where it says Christ died on the cross, however.

John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished; and he bowed his head and gave up the ghost.....but when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead alread ide, why then did Thomas say, "My Lord and my God", after having assessed his hands and side?

Acts 5:30:

The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew, hanging him on a tree.

Galatians 3:13:

Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us; for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]No one of the diciples saw him on the cross. Because they all ran away when jews captured him.

Where do you get this piece of foolishness? Do you have some special pet twisting to ignore John 19:35)?

John wrote that he said blood and water come out of the body of Jesus. He wrote this to counter the gnostics who said that Jesus was too ...[text shortened]... rist"[/b].

So don't just learn what the Bible says. Learn what else the Bible says.[/b]

I think your a priest or a preacher because you always answer not asked questions. Or give answers away from the question?

Did John in 19:35 say he saw the blood and water coming out from his body?

Is John who wrote John Gospel one of the diciples? How can you prove that?


Do you think I'm in danger, actually you are the one in danger..

I exactly follow what Jesus say and came from but you don't...

Jesus said that he is a man came with a message from GOD to worship the only GOD and that what he said in the Gospels and that is what I belive. Do you do that? Then you are the one who is in danger...

Originally posted by ahosyney
I didn't say he was not there after the cross. All what I said he didn't die on the cross, and he was not on the tomb. And he was alive all the time. So there is no problem for me that even 1000 saw him. The problem is did any one see him inside the tomb. Can you show me that in the Bible. I don't think so. Only one put him in the tomb and no one saw him go t he was the one on the cross. Specially he didn't admit that he is Jesus during his trial.

The only way you could believe that Jesus did not die on the cross is by flatly rejecting that what the Bible says is true. If you have some other source that you consider the authority on the subject which teaches otherwise, then only could you wrongly regard that source as the accurate account.

I suppose that you are refering to the Quran.

I take the 66 books of the Bible as the authoritative teaching on the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. The Quran has absolutely no authority for me on life, death, and resurrection of Christ. And the Bible definitely teaches that Christ died in the cross, was buried in the tomb which Joseph volunteered and was resurrected from the dead.

And in resurrection He became a life giving Spirit in order impart Himself in His pneumatic form into His believers:

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)

Now about seeing Him in the tomb. Those who lay His body in the tomb obviously saw Him in the tomb:

"This man [Joseph] came to Pilate and asked for the body of Jesus. Then Pilate commanded that it be given to him. And Joseph took the body [of Jesus] and wrapped it in a clean fine linen cloth. And he laid it in his own new tomb, which he had hewn in the rock. And having rolled a great stone in front of the door of the tomb, he went away." (Matthew 27:57-60)

It is inconceavable by by conspiracy theory of Islam that there could have been a mixup in whose body was taken from the cross and laid in the tomb of Joseph - a new tomb in which no other body had ever been lain.

After the earthquake the angels told the women that it was useless to seek Jesus any longer in the tomb. And this not because He was never buried there but because He had be raised from the dead:

"And the angel answered and said to the women. Do not be afraid, for I know that you are seeking Jesus, the crucified ... "

Notice that the angel called Jesus "the crucified". He did not say Jesus the escaped.

" ... Do not be afraid, for I know that you are seeking Jesus, the crucified. He is not here, for He has been raised, even as He said. Come, see the place where He was lying." (Matthew 28:5,6)

You are sorely being misled by the Quran. The angel refers to "Jesus. the crucified" and explains WHY He is not to be found in the tomb. It is not because He escaped the cross by some Islamic conspiracy theory. Rather "He has been raised". He died and He was buried in the tomb and He was raised. And this whole sequence was according to His own teaching - "He has been raised, EVEN AS HE SAID. Come see the place WHERE HE WAS LYING." (vs. 6)

As the women went away in joy they met Jesus and worshipped Him (Matt. 28:9)