17 Jan 14
1 edit
Originally posted by SwissGambit"Give me a source I can actually take seriously."
Bobby, note the bias of the page's author.Friedrich Nietzsche, pernicious philosopher who preached "God is dead"
Nietzsche died in spiritual darkness, a babbling madman. On a wall in Austria a graffiti said, "God is dead, --Nietzsche!"
Someone else wrote under it, "Nietzsche is dead! --God."
(See picture for proof!)
Pernicious? And the lame comeback on behalf of 'God'? Please. Give me a source I can actually take seriously.
Your assessment of the final three posts on page 3?
17 Jan 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyThey sound a bit more believable. I'm not going to challenge them, because I tend to be interested more in what he wrote than what went on behind the scenes.
"Give me a source I can actually take seriously."
Your assessment of the final three posts on page 3?
18 Jan 14
2 edits
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyAre you thinking the flames were hellfire?
"Re: Famous Atheists Last Words Before Dying"
"David Hume, atheist philosopher famous for his philosophy of empiricism and skepticism of religion, he cried loud on his death bed "I am in flames!" It is said his "desperation was a horrible scene".
What do you think about the Bible-based doctrine that judgment and reward/punishment wait until the second coming of Christ? Preach to me a bit on this, if you have time.
18 Jan 14
Originally posted by LemonJelloOriginally posted by LemonJello
For my money, I would add in some Charles Bukowski, George Carlin, Sam Harris (his Letter to a Christian Nation would be a rich source for scoff), Woody Allen. There are many more too....
Perhaps I will look some up to add in when I get chance.
For my money, I would add in some Charles Bukowski, George Carlin, Sam Harris (his Letter to a Christian Nation would be a rich source for scoff), Woody Allen. There are many more too....
Perhaps I will look some up to add in when I get chance.
_____________________________
LemonJello, here are a few of Woody Allen's observations and points of view:
1. "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name at a Swiss Bank." [Woody Allen, Selections from the Allen Notebooks, in New Yorker (5 Nov. 1973)]
2. "Not only is God dead, but just try to find a plumber on weekends."
3. "To YOU I'm an atheist; to God, I'm the Loyal Opposition."
4. "As the poet said, Only God can make a tree -- probably because it's so hard to figure out how to get the bark on."
5. "How can I believe in God when just last week I got my tongue caught in the roller of an electric typewriter?"
6. "If it turns out that there is a God, I don't think that he's evil. But the worst that you can say about him is that basically he's an underachiever."
7. "I do not believe in an afterlife, although I am bringing a change of underwear."
8. "The chief problem about death, incidentally, is the fear that there may be no afterlife -- a depressing thought, particularly for those who have bothered to shave. Also, there is the fear that there is an afterlife but no one will know where it's being held." [Woody Allen, The Early Essays, Without Feathers (1976)]
9. "I do occasionally envy the person who is religious naturally, without being brainwashed into it or suckered into it by all the organized hustles." [Woody Allen, Rolling Stone magazine, 1987]
http://atheism.about.com/library/quotes/bl_q_WAllen.htm
18 Jan 14
1 edit
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIOriginally posted by Paul Dirac II
Are you thinking the flames were hellfire?
What do you think about the Bible-based doctrine that judgment and reward/punishment wait until the second coming of Christ? Preach to me a bit on this, if you have time.
Are you thinking the flames were hellfire?
What do you think about the Bible-based doctrine that judgment and reward/punishment wait until the second coming of Christ? Preach to me a bit on this, if you have time.
More inclined to conclude he might have been hallucinating from a combination of Claret Wine and Laudanum
(for cirrhosis as described in the biography subsequently posted). SwissGambit rejected the possibility:
Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Re: Famous Atheists Last Words Before Dying"
"David Hume, atheist philosopher famous for his philosophy of empiricism and skepticism of religion,
he cried loud on his death bed "I am in flames!" It is said his "desperation was a horrible scene".
http://www.nairaland.com/746723/famous-atheists-last-words-before
"Don't believe everything you read on the internet." -SwissGambit
_______________________
".... judgment and reward/punishment" for what, involving whom?
Note: Yours truly isn't here to "preach"; rather to enjoy conversation with a diverse mix of people with a range of expertise, opinions and convictions. As opportunity presents itself, I'm motivated to provide pertinent information.
18 Jan 14
Originally posted by Paul Dirac II1 Thessalonians 4 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
1 Thessalonians chapter 4
Sanctification and Love:
"4 Finally then, brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to [a]walk and please God (just as you actually do [b]walk), that you excel still more. 2 For you know what commandments we gave you [c]by the authority of the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from [d]sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to [e]possess his own [f]vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in [g]lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God; 6 and that no man transgress and defraud his brother in the matter because the Lord is the avenger in all these things, just as we also told you before and solemnly warned you. 7 For God has not called us for the purpose of impurity, but [h]in sanctification. 8 So, he who rejects this is not rejecting man but the God who gives His Holy Spirit to you.
9 Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10 for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, 12 so that you will [i]behave properly toward outsiders and [j]not be in any need.
Those Who Died in Christ
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep [k]in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive [l]and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a [m]shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive [n]and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words."
Footnotes:
a.1 Thessalonians 4:1 Or conduct yourselves
b.1 Thessalonians 4:1 Or conduct yourselves
c.1 Thessalonians 4:2 Lit through the Lord
d.1 Thessalonians 4:3 Or fornication
e.1 Thessalonians 4:4 Or acquire
f.1 Thessalonians 4:4 I.e. body; or wife
g.1 Thessalonians 4:5 Lit passion of lust
h.1 Thessalonians 4:7 I.e. in the state or sphere of
i.1 Thessalonians 4:12 Lit walk
j.1 Thessalonians 4:12 Lit have need of nothing
k.1 Thessalonians 4:14 Lit through
l.1 Thessalonians 4:15 Lit who
m.1 Thessalonians 4:16 Or cry of command
n.1 Thessalonians 4:17 Lit who
Which verses, Paul?
21 Jan 14
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIOriginally posted by Paul Dirac II
Verses 14 & 16 seem to imply that (if "sleep" = dead and buried in the ground) the big moment of entering the afterlife waits until that time in the future when Jesus will drop into Earth's atmosphere, the second coming of Christ.
Verses 14 & 16 seem to imply that (if "sleep" = dead and buried in the ground) the big moment of entering the afterlife waits until that time in the future when Jesus will drop into Earth's atmosphere, the second coming of Christ.
"The Rapture of the Church Triggers the Day of the Lord: Based upon our definition of the “day of the Lord,” we can conclude that the “rapture of the church” will trigger this period. The “rapture” is a technical theological term for the resurrection of the church, which is imminent, invisible to the world, and terminates the church age dispensation. It will take place in the earth’s atmosphere when the Lord Jesus Christ will suddenly and forcefully remove the church from planet earth in order to deliver her from the Tribulation period."
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, “But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of {the} archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore comfort one another with these words.”
"The rapture is the “blessed hope” of the church since it delivers her from the wrath that is to come upon a Christ rejecting world during the Tribulation period, which will be the worst period in all of human history and immediately follows the rapture." Titus 2:13, “looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus.”
"The Lord Jesus Christ in His Upper Room Discourse first speaks of the rapture. John 14:1-3, Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, {there} you may be also.” Notice the Lord says that He will “receive us to Himself.” Compare it with this passage in second Thessalonians, which deals extensively with the rapture. 2 Thessalonians 2:1, “Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him.” (NASU)
The rapture of the church is distinguished in Scripture from the Second Advent of Christ in that the rapture delivers the church while the Second Advent delivers Israel. The rapture is seen only by the church and is therefore invisible while the Second Advent is the visible manifestation of Christ on the earth. The Lord meets the church in the earth’s atmosphere at the rapture, whereas the Lord physically lands on the Mount of Olives in Jerusalem at the Second Advent. Signs do not precede the rapture whereas visible signs precede the Second Advent.
The Lord claims His Bride at the rapture but He returns with her at the Second Advent. The rapture completes God’s program for the church while the Second Advent is related to God’s program for Israel. The rapture is a mystery, not known to Old Testament saints whereas the Second Advent is prophesied throughout the Old Testament canon. The rapture leaves creation unchanged whereas the Second Advent entails a change in creation. The rapture does not fulfill God’s covenants to Israel whereas the Second Advent marks the beginning of their fulfillment. The rapture precedes the Tribulation whereas the Second Advent follows it. The resurrection or rapture of the church was a mystery that was not known to Old Testament saints." 1 Corinthians 15 http://www.wenstrom.org/downloads/written/doctrines/eschatology/day_of_the_lord.pdf
Note: The "second coming of Christ" is preceded by the Rapture which completes the Church Age and the Tribulation.
21 Jan 14
Based on what you just posted, are you able to state whether some Christian friend of yours who has died is already in Heaven? If "yes," does he or she have a physical body there? If "yes" to that, would the person be doing things like walking around and eating food and drinking liquids?
21 Jan 14
Originally posted by LemonJelloOriginally posted by LemonJello
For my money, I would add in some Charles Bukowski, George Carlin, Sam Harris (his Letter to a Christian Nation would be a rich source for scoff), Woody Allen. There are many more too....
Perhaps I will look some up to add in when I get chance.
For my money, I would add in some Charles Bukowski, George Carlin, Sam Harris (his Letter to a Christian Nation would be a rich source for scoff), Woody Allen. There are many more too....
Perhaps I will look some up to add in when I get chance.
_____________________________________________________
LemonJello, here are several quotations from Charles Bukowski as you suggested (numerous duplications on Google):
"We’re all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn’t. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing."
"For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.” -Charles Bukowski
"The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.” -Charles Bukowski
"People don't need love. What they need is success in one form or another. It can be love but it needn't be.” -Charles Bukowski, Factotum
“There's nothing to mourn about death any more than there is to mourn about the growing of a flower. What is terrible is not death but the lives people live or don't live up until their death. They don't honor their own lives, they [deleted] on their lives. They [deleted] them away. Dumb [deleted]. They concentrate too much on [deleted], movies, money, family, [deleted]. Their minds are full of cotton. They swallow God without thinking, they swallow country without thinking. Soon they forget how to think, they let others think for them. Their brains are stuffed with cotton. They look ugly, they talk ugly, they walk ugly. Play them the great music of the centuries and they can't hear it. Most people's deaths are a sham. There's nothing left to die.” -Charles Bukowski
"If you're losing your soul and you know it, then you've still got a soul left to lose. - Charles Bukowski
"Question: Was Bukowski an atheist or agnostic? -Asked by Anonymous
I am not sure. He was never open about it as I know. He was buried by Buddhist rituals."
ttp://henrycharlesbukowski.tumblr.com/post/6151503285/was-bukowski-an-atheist-or-agnostic
21 Jan 14
Originally posted by Paul Dirac IIOriginally posted by Paul Dirac II
Based on what you just posted, are you able to state whether some Christian friend of yours who has died is already in Heaven? If "yes," does he or she have a physical body there? If "yes" to that, would the person be doing things like walking around and eating food and drinking liquids?
Based on what you just posted, are you able to state whether some Christian friend of yours who has died is already in Heaven? If "yes," does he or she have a physical body there? If "yes" to that, would the person be doing things like walking around and eating food and drinking liquids?
Yes; my wife Evelyn is now in an interim body and face to face with her Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, sharing His Perfect Happiness. From the Word of God we do know that there will the Marriage Supper of The Lamb as soon as the Rapture takes place (details are not revealed). If God can provide for our needs and pleasures on earth, how much more so in Heaven.
21 Jan 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyLamb Supper sounds Super, will it Be slow Cooked or flash-fried?
Originally posted by Paul Dirac II
[b]Based on what you just posted, are you able to state whether some Christian friend of yours who has died is already in Heaven? If "yes," does he or she have a physical body there? If "yes" to that, would the person be doing things like walking around and eating food and drinking liquids?
Yes; my wife ...[text shortened]... revealed). If God can provide for our needs and pleasures on earth, how much more so in Heaven.[/b]
Depends on Whether it Is mutton Or not I Suppose. Mint sauce Or
Garlic and Rosemary?
21 Jan 14
Originally posted by wolfgang59Originally posted by wolfgang59
Lamb Supper sounds Super, will it Be slow Cooked or flash-fried?
Depends on Whether it Is mutton Or not I Suppose. Mint sauce Or
Garlic and Rosemary?
"Lamb Supper sounds Super, will it Be slow Cooked or flash-fried?
Depends on Whether it Is mutton Or not I Suppose. Mint sauce Or
Garlic and Rosemary?"
Marriage Supper of the Lamb Revelation 19:6-9 New American Standard Bible: "6. Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, “Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns. 7. Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” 8. It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. 9. Then he said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he said to me, “These are true words of God.”