31 Aug 23
@mchill saidI seem to remember that you promote a doctrine different from that preached by Jesus. If the teachings of Jesus are easy to understand why do you not promote that?
I very much doubt Jesus was aiming his message specifically at self-appointed and self-governing ecclesiastical intellectuals. The lessons and parables Jesus spoke looked to be aimed at everyone regardless of status, wealth, or intellectual level.
Regarding your statement: "How his teachings ought to be understood" This is simply an unnecessary complication. The teachings of Jesus are not difficult to understand.
@fmf saidYou are right. Unfortunately you are trying to convince two people who are borderline insane. One is a self-confessed bisexual Christian, who gets her doctrine from ChatGPT, which convinced her that homosexuality is OK, and the other is thinking of ways to gas or hurt people who disagree with him.
@kellyjay said
You are delusional!
No, I'm not, KellyJay. I am telling it like it is. If you admire Suzianne's posting, so be it. But I am well-grounded, clear-sighted and thoughtful about what I believe and what I post and not "delusional" at all.
@rajk999 saidI note that KellyJay has finally broken his huffy silence after 9 months, not to converse in good faith, but instead to try hurling a feeble insult.
You are right. Unfortunately you are trying to convince two people who are borderline insane. One is a self-confessed bisexual Christian, who gets her doctrine from ChatGPT, which convinced her that homosexuality is OK, and the other is thinking of ways to gas or hurt people who disagree with him.
@philokalia saidHere is a classic example of people who love themselves and love their church. You love your Catholic Church, and will use every opportunity to show how important your church is. The idea that Simon Peter was the first pope of Rome is not rooted in fact. It is a mere tradition handed down by the early Catholic church leaders. Why? It just makes them feel special and important. There is no historical justification for believing Peter was the first Pope.. but if that makes you happy then by all means carry on. What should concern you is how your church is viewed by others, and on that score it is lacking.
What's great about this is that a Catholic might not disagree:
He appointed Peter - on this rock I build my Church...
So the Catholic hierarchy is not self-appointed.
It is also not self-governing, according to Catholics, I imagine, as they are very seriously below Christ...
And I would further state, as an Orthodox Christian, that the understanding ...[text shortened]... when overstepping the boundaries inw hat they should be doing...
Very fun and complicated topic.
As far as Jesus is concerned here is one passage of many, that is relevant to all people. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. (John 10:27-28 KJV) The sheep are all people who do as Jesus commanded, and that is all that matters.
31 Aug 23
@rajk999 saidHis institutionalization has been at the hands of the Eastern Orthodox Church, a.k.a the Orthodox Church, officially called the Orthodox Catholic Church. So, not the one whose HQ is in The Vatican.
You love your Catholic Church, and will use every opportunity to show how important your church is.
31 Aug 23
@rajk999 saidWell, this is el classico when interacting with Protestants on this:
Here is a classic example of people who love themselves and love their church. You love your Catholic Church, and will use every opportunity to show how important your church is. The idea that Simon Peter was the first pope of Rome is not rooted in fact. It is a mere tradition handed down by the early Catholic church leaders. Why? It just makes them feel special and importa ...[text shortened]... -28 KJV) [/b] The sheep are all people who do as Jesus commanded, and that is all that matters.
2 Thessalonians 2:
13 But we are [f]bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through [g]sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our [h]epistle.
The tradition of having a strong church hierarchy built around Bishops, with St. Peter as the first Bishop of Rome, is quite old. It is a tradition.
Of course, when the Church is in the wrong, we have to separate ourselves, as the Orthodox have separated themselves from the Catholics to this day, so we should not interpret this overly extremely, allowing single men dictate to the entirety of the Church...
But the point here is that there are traditions and Church institutions which are valid and handed down, not necessarily recorded and fully spelled out in the Bible.
Dismissing these institutions is actually countering what is said here in 2 Thessalonians.
31 Aug 23
@philokalia saidBy what measure are they "valid"?
But the point here is that there are traditions and Church institutions which are valid and handed down, not necessarily recorded and fully spelled out in the Bible.
02 Sep 23
@fmf saidPardon me, but given your track record of how you treat posters in this very forum (the posts are all still there, for anyone interested), your snap judgement of others, based on your own feelings of disassociation with them over their disagreement with you, is not something I'm going to give any credence to, and is rather obviously your bog-standard sour grapes response. For example, every post you've leveled at me over the years has been fueled by some bizarre motivation, most usually a desire to reduce my credibility. Given my track record of spot-on observational critiques of your posts to me (like this one), all I have to say is "good luck with that".
Suzianne, I interact with the people that I disagree with far better than you interact with the people that you disagree with. And I do not point this out to upset you. You read people very badly, most of all yourself.
02 Sep 23
@fmf saidA sincere fan of your own voice. Clearly.
@kellyjay said
You are delusional!
No, I'm not, KellyJay. I am telling it like it is. If you admire Suzianne's posting, so be it. But I am well-grounded, clear-sighted and thoughtful about what I believe and what I post and not "delusional" at all.
Too bad the truth of it eludes you.
02 Sep 23
@rajk999 saidAnd I believe Jesus said something regarding bearing false witness of others. Something you clearly don't take seriously. Maybe you should get thyself to church.
You are right. Unfortunately you are trying to convince two people who are borderline insane. One is a self-confessed bisexual Christian, who gets her doctrine from ChatGPT, which convinced her that homosexuality is OK, and the other is thinking of ways to gas or hurt people who disagree with him.
02 Sep 23
@suzianne saidThis is nonsense, Suzianne. No one on this forum gets as bent out of shape by disagreement as you do.
Pardon me, but given your track record of how you treat posters in this very forum (the posts are all still there, for anyone interested), your snap judgement of others, based on your own feelings of disassociation with them over their disagreement with you, is not something I'm going to give any credence to, and is rather obviously your bog-standard sour grapes response. F ...[text shortened]... rvational critiques of your posts to me (like this one), all I have to say is "good luck with that".