Calling out the faithful

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Ha ha ha ha ....... Nice try, Bbarr. How come your words sound so untrue ?

I have no ulterior motive here, Ivanhoe. I'm sincerely interested in how you think your relationship with God has made you a better person. Of course it is your prerogative to participate or not.

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Are you a born again Christian ?

Yes, I am.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Yes, and all science has to back it up are mere facts.

If you really think that you seriously need to read some 20th century philosophers of science.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
If you really think that you seriously need to read some 20th century philosophers of science.

Got any recommendations?

Please, also, I would be interested in what you consider to be a fact, and not a fact in science. For example, if I weigh a leaf, and it has a mass of 0.238g, is that a fact? If not, what is it? If I weigh 9 more, and conclude that the mean for that population is 0.264 +/- 0.010 g, is that a fact?

If I 15N label the leaf, measure the loss of N from the leaf through time, and the total N pool, are the extrapolated fluxes facts, or merely the component measurements? It's very difficult to draw distinct lines, but I'd consider protein turnover to have been proven beyond any reasonable doubt, and to be a "fact".

Originally posted by vistesd
I think your charges of “misleading” are presumptuous. I think you also may be misreading some of Kirksey’s tongue-in-cheek humor in the affair (i.e., the “souls to be saved” bit).

Personally, I can’t think of anyone on here (including myself), that has not been ridiculed or personally insulted for something that they have posted. Nor, (offhand, and wit ...[text shortened]... take part, whether they believe that it is in some way farcical, or they simply do not wish to.

Also, although “sermon” may be generally a Christian-contextual word, the thread is not limited to Christians; all religions were invited.

I am aware of that. In the context of this thread however, kirksey's assurances came from one Christian to another.


And if the judges do not act in bad faith, can Kirk expect the same from you?

Sure, no problem.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Got any recommendations?

Please, also, I would be interested in what you consider to be a fact, and not a fact in science. For example, if I weigh a leaf, and it has a mass of 0.238g, is that a fact? If not, what is it? If I weigh 9 more, and conclude that the mean for that population is 0.264 +/- 0.010 g, is that a fact?

If I 15N label the lea ...[text shortened]... nsider protein turnover to have been proven beyond any reasonable doubt, and to be a "fact".

Got any recommendations?

Kuhn. Lakatos.

For example, if I weigh a leaf, and it has a mass of 0.238g, is that a fact?

If you weigh a leaf you will be making several assumptions (for instance, what the value of the acceleration due to gravity is at your location) as well as operating within a particular theoretical framework or paradigm (e.g. Newtonian physics).

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Yes, and all science has to back it up are mere facts.

As for global warming, well, you I don't understand J. You've got kids and grandkids if I remember rightly, do you think we can continue polluting the world and it'll all just "go away"? What do you want for your grandkids, man?

Yes. You're right. We are polluting the planet. I hate it too.
But there's no way we humans are going to stop this forward motion of "progress". I'm not a fatalist, but I have no faith in the efforts of man.
This is crazy. How do we find the solution to this dilemma we humans are facing? If current trends continue I have no doubt we'll see war.

Man that sounds bad!

Originally posted by scottishinnz
No, one just wakes up and understands God is an excuse, not an explanation.

The God I know isn't an excuse!

There's something here in this ...can you site one example as to how God is an excuse, and tell me how you draw that conclusion?
Seriously, I didn't learn about God that way, and I would really like to know why you think the way you do.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
[b]Got any recommendations?

Kuhn. Lakatos.

For example, if I weigh a leaf, and it has a mass of 0.238g, is that a fact?

If you weigh a leaf you will be making several assumptions (for instance, what the value of the acceleration due to gravity is at your location) as well as operating within a particular theoretical framework or paradigm (e.g. Newtonian physics).[/b]

Kuhn. Lakatos.

Thanks, I'll put them on my list.

leaf mass

Do you think these are unreasonable assumptions? Personally, I think you are taking the point to absurd lengths. Is there anything which could ever be called a "fact" within your theoretical framework? Religion would almost certainly fall foul of it on every single test.

Originally posted by josephw
Yes. You're right. We are polluting the planet. I hate it too.
But there's no way we humans are going to stop this forward motion of "progress". I'm not a fatalist, but I have no faith in the efforts of man.
This is crazy. How do we find the solution to this dilemma we humans are facing? If current trends continue I have no doubt we'll see war.

Man that sounds bad!

I can see where you are coming from, and we could have said the same with any number of environmental disasters which we solved. What about CFCs and the ozone hole? We reckon that'll be normal again by about 2050. Sulphur dioxide traps in industrial stacks have pretty much eliminated the worst effects of acid rain, and even going further back, the fact that we don't use so much coal in our industry anymore has helped a lot with air quality in many major cities.

We can do something about problems, but only if we properly commit and are willing to make difficult choices. In karate, people with defeatist attitudes shouldn't even bother getting on the mat, they've already lost. So too with real life, in my opinion.

Hope you are well, Joe.

Originally posted by josephw
The God I know isn't an excuse!

There's something here in this ...can you site one example as to how God is an excuse, and tell me how you draw that conclusion?
Seriously, I didn't learn about God that way, and I would really like to know why you think the way you do.

The God of the bible has no explanatory power. For example, an explanation (theory / supported hypothesis) in science must have predictive power. "Goddunnit" is nothing most that an excuse, another way to say "we don't know" without having to say "we don't know".

Originally posted by scottishinnz
Actually, I think Jesus is the worst joke to have ever been foisted upon mankind.

There's your token Atheist Kirksey!!!

Originally posted by Jay Joos
There's your token Atheist Kirksey!!!

I was looking for the "token Christian" he was talking about.

Originally posted by Jay Joos
There's your token Atheist Kirksey!!!

prove me wrong or shut up.

Originally posted by scottishinnz
prove me wrong or shut up.

You, scotty, are a worthy opponent!

Do you mind, "scotty"? I've seen someone use it before.